On 2015-09-13, 13:13 GMT, Haïkel wrote: > But, distros have lost the influence they used to have then, we're in the > cloud/container era where people bundle everything ... And they won't retake it by giving up. Then they will just give ammunition to the idiots persuading them they are right. > Now, it's very common that large upstream projects just tell us to get > lost. My experience is very different. Sensible languages and their universe usually welcome sensible patches. Even some less sensible universes are moving towards more sensible state ... certainly even such monster as Java is (hopefully, slowly) moving in the right direction, I see some (some!) movement in the right direction even in the JavaScript world (ES6, some efforts in the NodeJS world). Yes, there is PHP, but I believe that their brightest moment has passed and they will either start to do sensical engineering (and that means way more than just unbundling) or they will slowly vanish. Certainly, I don't think PHP is the reason why Fedora should change their direction. And if somebody thinks docker & co. is the answer, then we should wait just a little bit before they discover that the content of their containters needs maintenance as well, and before their customers discover that they have infrastructure full of old unmaintatenable junk. Certainly, an engineer who prostitutes himself and in order to be popular accepts stupid decisions of his clients is not something I would like to follow. Matěj -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mcepl@xxxxxxxxxx GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A GOOD name is rather to be chosen than great riches. -- Proverbs 22:1 -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct