----- Original Message ----- > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:26:14AM -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:30:31AM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Bastien Nocera <bnocera@xxxxxxxxxx> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> OK not everyone is on the same page, apparently. This bug was just > > > > >> closed by Anaconda as WONTFIX. > > > > >> > > > > >> suggested swap for laptop seems low > > > > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1037472 > > > > >> > > > > >> I don't see how hibernation works reliably with such a low default > > > > >> swap > > > > >> size. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't the way to fix it. The hibernation file/partition should > > > > > really be independent > > > > > of swap, because 1) you can't be sure how much swap will actually be > > > > > used > > > > > by the applications > > > > > so you can't be sure you'll ever have enough swap to save the RAM 2) > > > > > Too > > > > > much swap and the > > > > > (lack of) interactivity will make you want to advocate physical > > > > > violence > > > > > when your machine > > > > > is unusable for an hour because of a hungry Javascript in your 50th > > > > > Firefox tab. > > > > > > > > Windows and OS X both use swapfiles rather than swap partition, and a > > > > sleep image file rather than a partition. OS X's swapfiles are > > > > dynamically created on demand in variable size increments. > > > I think the problem is in the ways filesystems are implemented. The > > > fs has to be mounted to access the swap file, and this can change the > > > fs, even with a read-only mount. Because we don't have > > > really-read-only fs mounting, we need to support swap-as-partition, so > > > we might just as well use it by default. > > > > > > > Both OS's have a feature that I find invaluable on a laptop which is > > > > the automatic switch from suspend-to-RAM to suspend-to-disk. > > > Yes, integrating with firmware would be great. So far this hasn't been > > > hapenning... > > > What we can do instead is use hybrid sleep. It's not smart at all, > > > and doesn't prevent your battery from draining completely, but it does > > > protect > > > your data. > > > > > > Systemd supports hybrid-sleep as another option analogous to suspend > > > and hibernation, so for anything using systemd to suspend swithing to > > > hybrid should be trivial. Maybe we should make this an F23 goal: > > > - use hybrid-sleep from Gnome and other DE by default > > > > Hybrid sleep as offered in systemd still is just suspend + hibernation, and > > the way we do hibernation is broken. > Can you be more specific? Do you consider hibernate-to-swap-partition > unacceptable? I think that conflating "memory-to-disk swap space" with "I can hibernate my machine" is unacceptable. We need a new partition type that Anaconda would setup, or a whitelist of laptops with firmwares that support rapid start (and again, Anaconda to set it up), or use a temporary file of any sort to store the hibernation data. If my machine has 8 gigs of memory, I don't want to need 8 gigs plus of swap to be able to hibernate it, when run away processes can make my machine unusable for hours if they start hitting that swap. > > Hybrid sleep is already the default on low battery with newer versions of > > UPower. > Yeah, I wasn't aware of that. This should be a good thing. > > Zbyszek > > -- > devel mailing list > devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
