On 08/26/2014 08:15 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
What's the rationale here? I mean, we have so many dependencies, if
you want to minimize them, you have a loooong way to go...
When I bootstrapped Fedora for ARM way back when, I had to deal with
these dependencies. A lot. Finding a minimal set of RPMs to
Well, Fedora is not a distribution that cares about whether it is easily
bootstrappable. It never was a goal to be one. If you want to make it
one, then that's fine, but that'd be something to make an official goal
first, by going through FESCO...
If you want a distro that is bootstrappable, the way that Gentoo is, or
that Debian tries to be then that's OK. I personally don't think it is
worth the effort though, as we don't have to bootstrap new archs every
other week...
I believe that's something that the Base working group is actually
actively trying to achieve, Phil or one of the members might be able
to comment further on their exact plans for this.
cross-compile to get a bootable core was very difficult because of
dependencies, and managing the path up to koji was a nightmare. Even
after that, there were some packages that couldn't be built *at all*
because of circuilar dependencies or dependencies on them.
Cyclic dependencies are something that so far was accepted in
Fedora. If you want to get rid of that, then make it a Fedora goal...
For many packages getting rid of the cyclic deps would mean having to
build things twice, but I am not sure this is really worth the work...
Well if you can set a boostrap flag in the distro, run a set of
builds, unset the flag, bump and rebuild it's really not that much
work,
So, to all of you who say "oh well" to dependencies... I hate you.
Seriously. Not only have you made my personal job miserable for a
while, but you demonstrate the worst traits of engineering. If
there's a problem, you don't hide it or just "let it be because we're
used to it." You *fix* it. And you make sure it *stays* fixed. Take
some pride in your work! Do the best you can! If you're only willing
to do mediocre work and let problems exist because you can't be
bothered to fix them, then Fedora will at best be a mediocre product.
You know, some cyclic des might be easy to resolve, but a big chunk
really isn't. And our core OS stuff is full of it. I think you
underestiate the complexity of this.
There's actually been some analysis done of this and people are
actively working to reduce them.
Peter
Thanks for your words. I was waiting for someone from Base WG, who will
say we are working on it! At least I thought Base WG was trying to make
easier bootstrap for additional architectures and for images.
Bootstraping macros for breaking cycles are used by some languages and
it would be great to do similar work for whole distribution. Removal of
optional dependencies from main package will be also useful, when Fedora
will produce Docker images.
Marcela
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