Dear Dan, Le mardi 29 janvier 2013 à 04:13 -0800, Dan Mashal a écrit : > Now I know that we are both biased here, however what it really feels > like here is REDHAT If I may interrupt you, that's written in 2 words, Red Hat. Not wanting to deviate from your discourse with my rambling about the red baseball cap of the founder, may I just request that please respect the official spelling as a true gentleman ? > employees want Gnome 3 and they are giving a bunch of bullshit excuses > on why it should be, referencing various stupid apple to orange > comparisons from 10 years ago. Why don't we take a poll where no Red > Hat employees can vote. Only non Red Hat Fedora employees and the > board itself can make a final decision after considering what FESCO > has to say about it. Again, if i may, from a purely mathematics point of view, either your poll would be significantly different without 5000 people, or you don't. If you think 5000 people can make a significant difference ( and I say 5000, but in practice, more than half of them would not take interest due to them not being on technical side of the things, and I would estimate that more than half of the remaining being on others projects than the linux distribution would not also honor us of their opinion either ), I would dare to say that your sample is pretty small. If we suppose those 5000 persons can make a huge difference in the poll ( huge difference being more than 5%, all voting to gnome 3 ), that mean that a poll would have less than 100 000 users. While that seems a lot for the casual observer, that would be only 5% of the unique visitors to the main website, according to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics#fedoraproject.org_unique_visitors ). So if we take a estimation where everybody visiting the website vote, those 5000 people would represent 0.25% of the potential sample based on past measures, and that's almost nothing. And that's a supposition of having 5% of difference to be significant while your thesis is that so many people want something else than gnome 3 than 5% shouldn't really matter. If you don't think these 5000 people make a difference at all ( ie 0.25% of the people who would see the poll, without any slashdot announce or anything ), then why exclude them ? Even if we consider they all ask to their household to answer the poll ( a quite dishonest move IMHO and be assured that I would not do it and firmly encourage others to not do it either), that would maybe go to 1%. Let's say 2% if they ask to their neighbours in exchange of some chocolat cakes ( oh yes, chocolate cake, there is such felony theses days ). On the other hand, based on what happened to Mandriva a few months ( around summer 2012 ) for the name of their new foundation, it doesn't take much to derail a poll, as they would explain if you ask them nicely. And while I focused on the purely mathematical part of your bold proposal, I would add that exclusion of a rather significant part of the community do not seems like a good idea to promote cooperation. You see, my noble friend, that's kinda a condition for team work such as the work we should be doing at the moment, and should be promoted rather than demoted. > Face it. Fedora 15 Gnome 3 cause a major uproar. Anaconda on RHEL6 is > easier to use than Anaconda 18. Almost 3 years later and "oh yeah we > realized we should probably add a real "fallback" mode to Gnome 3. If I may again interrupt, if we count 2 years of existence of gnome shell for public consumtion, and counting the time needed to write and discuss with others people ( since the whole discussion of dropping fallback come from Vincent Untz ), that would be 1.5 years, not 3. > Meanwhile the main people writing code are not the community. > Meanwhile MATE is lighter weight than Gnome 2.3, If i may again interrupt, I think you mean 3.2 or 3.4, not 2.3. > has numerous bug fixes, > will have full support for systems/logind.. > Something even Gnome 3 still has trouble with. So I looked and found ... 1 single bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=869998 It is here since 4 days. It seems that I may indeed be unable to find more, having naively typed "logind" in the small white box of bugzilla and looked at the 10 bugs found. Likely a shortcoming of the perfidious engine behind the website, and so I would request that you provides the needed information in order to overcome our mutual misunderstanding. > Is it really that scary for you guys to think about something else > besides Gnome 3 and KDE? > > Not enough support? Then step up and quit whining. You know how to > help, Red Hat employees. > > Don't be selfish. This is Fedora not RHEL. This is a community based > distribution not Red Hats playground. Please feel free to correct me > if I'm wrong. > > Everyone loves to dance around the fact about what Fedora is or isn't. > > > This isn't one persons decision and its not 2003. > > Get with the times. Your projects failed. Sure a lot of people like > it. Then again a lot of people don't. And we wonder why there are less > people using Fedora. > > And then we wonder why MATE and Cinnamon got the most press coverage > in Fedora 18 and why there has been a huge user spike in the last 30 > days. It hasn't been because of systemd, Gnome 3.6, and Anaconda 18. > You are on serious drugs if you believe that. I am delighted to announce you that Red Hat has a policy of not tolerating drugs on the work place. So you should be utterly relieved to know that no people posting here with a @redhat.com email should be under the influence of any serious hallucinogens. And I cannot speak for the others, but I have myself a pretty strict policy of avoiding drugs and alcohols when posting on mailing lists even when not being at the work place. So I think your deduction could benefit from a reassessment based on these new facts. Sincerely, -- Michael Scherer -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
