On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 12:52:26 -0500, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Sat, 2013-01-12 at 18:14 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > > Well, I am very opposed to silent makerules. > > > > I like them. :-) By the way, CMake has had them for way longer than the > > autotools and they have always been the default in CMake (but we default RPM > > builds (and only RPM builds, in the %cmake and %cmake_kde4 RPM macros) to > > enable verbose mode by default now). > > > > > All silent-makerules are doing is to span a hidden mine-field of bugs to > > > trap users into. > > > > > > E.g. are you sure your include paths and the defines your packages are > > > using are correct? With silent makerules, you and your users won't > > > notice them being wrong - building only appears to be working, while you > > > package actually is totally misconfigured. +1 Verbose build output is useful and convenient. This is experienced regularly in Fedora Package Review Requests. Examples: rpmlint detects "debuginfo without sources", but due to non-verbose build output one cannot see what compiler flags are used actually or whether a file gets stripped. Same for the linker flags. In other cases, there are wrong preprocessor definitions, wrong file/directory paths entering the builds, wrong header/library search path options, overridden optimization flags, explicitly linked static libs, … > > Those automatically generated compiler command lines tend to be very long, I > > doubt most developers actually read them, ever. All they do is burying > > important warnings (e.g. "cast to pointer from integer of different size") > > under a flood of non-error/warning lines, thus increasing the chance of the > > warnings getting missed. In fact, I dislike even the fact that we're > > required to use verbose mode for package builds, exactly for that reason. It > > makes build.log a lot larger (multiple MiB!) and a lot less useful. > > +1 > verbose mode should be used only when debugging a build privately It depends on how much is printed for a non-verbose build. If there's a compiler/linker error, just terminating with "failed" or "error" is inconvenient and not useful, because the packager would need to increase verbosity for another test-build, even if just temporarily, and having to do something like that repeatedly makes it a tedious task. Imagine you've prepared a package "privately" (i.e. locally), but in the official Fedora Build System it fails. Perhaps due to breakage in some of the build requirements, such as a pkgconfig file (or a generic foo-config script) adding libs that don't work. The build.log is not helpful, if the details are missing. -- Fedora release 18 (Spherical Cow) - Linux 3.7.1-5.fc18.x86_64 loadavg: 0.07 0.08 0.06 -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
