=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2011-06-01) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 17:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-06-01/fesco.2011-06-01-17.30.log.html Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 17:30:01) * #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags (nirik, 17:31:58) * Features - Introduction/general comments (nirik, 17:36:12) * #589 Porting from sysVinit init scripts to systemd unit files (nirik, 17:42:55) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd (nirik, 17:43:16) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/QA/Systemd/compatability ? (mclasen, 17:45:52) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 17:52:21) * #591 F16Feature: Aeolus Conductor - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Aeolus_Conductor (nirik, 17:52:31) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 17:55:19) * #592 F16Feature: Blender 2.5 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Blender25 (nirik, 17:55:24) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 17:59:55) * #593 F16Feature: Cloudstack - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Cloudstack (nirik, 18:00:09) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 18:06:49) * #594 F16Feature: F16 BTRFS default file system - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F16BtrfsDefaultFs (nirik, 18:07:03) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/16/Schedule (nirik, 18:20:20) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features (mclasen, 18:21:48) * AGREED: FESCo folks will add critera and questions to the feature page, revisit feature next week. (nirik, 18:40:39) * #595 F16Feature: GHC 7.0.3 and Haskell Platform 2011.2.0.1 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GHC703 (nirik, 18:41:18) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 18:42:23) * #596 F16Feature: HAL Removal - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/HalRemoval (nirik, 18:42:31) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 18:44:14) * #597 F16Feature: Sheepdog - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Sheepdog (nirik, 18:44:26) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 18:46:10) * #598 F16Feature: SysV to Systemd - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd (nirik, 18:46:24) * #599 F16Feature: ConsoleKit Removal/Automatic Multi-Seat Support - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ckremoval (nirik, 18:47:03) * AGREED: defer and gather more info. (nirik, 18:51:45) * #600 F16Feature: nss-myhostname by default - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/nssmyhostname (nirik, 18:51:54) * AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 18:55:31) * #601 F16 Feature: Perl5.14 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/perl5.14 (nirik, 18:55:40) * AGREED: feature is approved. (provided it passes wrangler) (nirik, 18:58:26) * Schedule for f16 (nirik, 18:58:49) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/16/Schedule (nirik, 18:59:23) * AGREED: FESCo is ok with the proposed schedule. (nirik, 19:07:22) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:07:27) Meeting ended at 19:14:52 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (178) * mclasen (43) * rbergeron (36) * mjg59 (35) * notting (34) * mmaslano (33) * fenrus02 (26) * josef (25) * cwickert (24) * ajax (18) * zodbot (17) * pjones (13) * kylem (11) * gholms (9) * jsmith (8) * drago01 (4) * tibbs|h (3) * tatica (2) * abadger1999 (2) * nsoranzo (2) * Southern_Gentlem (1) * SMParrish (0) -- 17:30:01 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2011-06-01) 17:30:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun 1 17:30:01 2011 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:30:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:30:01 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 17:30:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 17:30:01 <nirik> #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax cwickert mjg59 mmaslano 17:30:01 <nirik> #topic init process 17:30:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 mmaslano nirik notting 17:30:08 <notting> hello all 17:30:26 <nirik> morning everyone 17:30:36 <kylem> yo. 17:30:38 * mclasen is here for a change 17:30:52 <mmaslano> hello 17:31:22 * cwickert is here 17:31:52 <nirik> ok, I guess lets dive in. we have a pile of features today. ;) 17:31:58 <nirik> #topic #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags 17:31:58 <nirik> .fesco 563 17:32:00 <zodbot> nirik: #563 (suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/563 17:32:08 <nirik> I guess ajax was looking into this more... 17:32:35 <tibbs|h> This sounds like a packaging guideline. 17:33:18 <nirik> tibbs|h: well, we were going to just change default cflags... 17:33:34 <nirik> but apparently there's a bug in the toolchain somewhere with one of them, so we didn't yet. 17:34:20 <nirik> ajax: any news on ticket 563? 17:34:24 <nirik> .fesco 563 17:34:28 <zodbot> nirik: #563 (suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/563 17:34:47 <ajax> not that i've heard. i'll follow up. 17:34:51 <tibbs|h> At one time ajax had submitted a guideline draft surrounding PIE. 17:35:00 <ajax> PIC, not PIE. 17:35:17 <tibbs|h> Ah, right, that was a static library thing. 17:36:03 <nirik> ok, will revisit... 17:36:12 <nirik> #topic Features - Introduction/general comments 17:36:20 <nirik> so, we have a bunch of features today. 17:36:37 <nirik> I'd like to note that mether pointed out that many of our features lack reasonable docs/release notes. 17:36:47 * mclasen scrambles to find the agenda 17:37:00 <nirik> I don't know if we want to push back on this more today or not, but thought I would mention it. 17:37:24 <nirik> Also, I think there's some folks ( rbergeron and abadger1999 at least I think) that were interested in revamping our feature process. 17:37:39 <nirik> that won't of course affect anything today, but thought I would mention it. 17:37:49 <nirik> Anyone have general feature comments before we start on them? 17:38:04 <mmaslano> rbergeron: ^ 17:38:18 <abadger1999> Yeah we ewere interested but haven't gotten our act together. 17:38:31 <abadger1999> I'll let rbergeron lead on that since she's the current feature wrangler :-) 17:38:45 * nirik thinks it needs revamping too, but also has not had time to do anything about it. 17:39:31 <nirik> ok, diving in then... 17:39:32 <mclasen> I think we can do better if we look at different features differently 17:39:32 <mmaslano> we should care more about changes. New packages like cloud feature could be only mentioned in release notes 17:39:51 <mmaslano> mclasen: I agree 17:39:51 <mclasen> there cleanups, version updates, default changes,... 17:40:07 <nirik> yeah, I think things that are release notes/docs/press should be a bit different from things that need coordination, etc. 17:40:10 <nirik> mclasen: yep. 17:40:12 <gholms> How about feature removals? 17:40:35 <nirik> gholms: like removing hal? 17:40:41 <gholms> Hal, Xen, you-name-it 17:40:59 <mjg59> Hey, sorry 17:41:16 <nirik> sure, it would be good to note those for rel-notes, etc too. 17:41:27 <mmaslano> two categories will be enough. Could break other packages, can't break. 17:42:02 <nirik> anyhow, dunno if we can redo the process here today, but do be thinking about it and coming up with proposals to fix it. 17:42:36 <mmaslano> probably not, wait for rbergeron 17:42:55 <nirik> #topic #589 Porting from sysVinit init scripts to systemd unit files 17:42:55 <nirik> .fesco 589 17:42:56 <zodbot> nirik: #589 (Porting from sysVinit init scripts to systemd unit files) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/589 17:43:16 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd 17:44:02 <nirik> this was one mether noted about release notes I think. 17:44:46 <nirik> I'd add that we should submit our systemd units files upstream as well as they are made. 17:45:30 <nirik> votes? comments? 17:45:33 <mmaslano> I'm not sure if all units files will be created on time. 17:45:43 <mmaslano> Do they have any tracker? 17:45:52 <mclasen> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/QA/Systemd/compatability ? 17:45:59 <mjg59> Expecting 100% completion in 6 months would probably be unrealistic 17:46:04 <mjg59> But I think it's something to aim for 17:46:18 <nirik> yeah, I'm sure there will be stragglers... 17:46:46 <gholms> I don't see anything in that feature page that mentions any interaction with package maintainers. 17:47:21 <mclasen> gholms: a ton of bugs have been filed already, it seems ? 17:47:24 <nirik> "Developers will need to convert ..." 17:47:28 <nirik> yeah, bugs have been filed. 17:47:32 <notting> last point of scope says 'developers', i assume that refers to the maintainers 17:47:34 <mmaslano> mclasen: it's not updated, I converted my daemons already 17:47:42 <gholms> Oh, got it. 17:48:01 <mclasen> mmaslano: ah, thats why the 'last updated' field was empty :-) 17:48:33 <nirik> so, +1 here, but I'd like to add some suggestions... need more for release notes, note about upstreaming changes. 17:49:15 <notting> +1 as well 17:49:28 <mclasen> +1 here too 17:49:30 <notting> release note would be a bit strange - wouldn't it just point to more general systemd documentation? 17:49:44 <mmaslano> +1 17:50:14 <ajax> +1 17:50:49 <mjg59> +1 17:52:08 <nirik> well, note that X number of packages have been converted, 17:52:16 <nirik> for info see systemd docs, blah 17:52:21 <nirik> #agreed feature is approved. 17:52:31 <nirik> #topic #591 F16Feature: Aeolus Conductor - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Aeolus_Conductor 17:53:14 <ajax> cloud me harder. 17:54:01 <nirik> It looks like a long list... and 0% 17:54:13 <nirik> but if they want to try for f16, great. ;) +1 here 17:54:16 <notting> yep, although i don't see that as reason to not approve it now. +1 17:54:17 <mjg59> +1 17:54:41 <mmaslano> +1, this one is candidate for release notes only 17:54:53 <ajax> +! 17:55:19 <nirik> #agreed feature is approved. 17:55:20 <kylem> +1 17:55:24 <nirik> #topic #592 F16Feature: Blender 2.5 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Blender25 17:55:24 <nirik> .fesco 592 17:55:26 <zodbot> nirik: #592 (F16Feature: Blender 2.5 - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Blender25) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/592 17:55:59 <notting> ack, just add it to the relnotes. +1 17:56:07 <nirik> +1 17:56:12 <ajax> +1 17:56:20 <nirik> is this the first major python3.x thing we have? 17:56:21 <notting> i'm not particularly fond of the idea of creating a compat package 17:56:46 <nirik> yeah, seems short lived 17:57:55 <mmaslano> +1 17:58:05 <mclasen> would be good to have some details on the 'packages which could not migrate' - what set of packages are we talking about here 17:59:30 <mclasen> anyway, +1 here too 17:59:35 <mjg59> +1 17:59:55 <nirik> #agreed feature is approved. 18:00:09 <nirik> #topic #593 F16Feature: Cloudstack - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Cloudstack 18:00:09 <nirik> .fesco 593 18:00:11 <zodbot> nirik: #593 (F16Feature: Cloudstack - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Cloudstack) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/593 18:00:44 <nirik> mor cloud. ;) 18:00:45 <mclasen> oh no, buzzword typo in the summary ! 18:01:12 <notting> so, do we get cloudstack and aeolus to fight? 18:01:22 <notting> in any case, sure, +1 18:01:23 <mmaslano> +1 (release notes) 18:01:28 <nirik> +1 here. 18:01:38 <ajax> +1 18:01:53 <mclasen> notting: one would think the feature pages should give you a way to figure out if the two overlap or are entirely different things... 18:01:58 * mclasen comes up empty though 18:02:02 <rbergeron> whoa! fail. /me apologizes, thought meeting was at 18:30. 18:02:26 * rbergeron glares at wiki/Fedora_meeting_channel 18:02:39 <nirik> hey rbergeron. 18:02:43 <nirik> sorry for any confusion. ;( 18:02:57 * nirik has to step away for just a minute. continue on... 18:03:01 <rbergeron> no worries. i should have double checkered. sorry. 18:04:59 <mmaslano> more votes for cloudstack? 18:05:03 * gholms sees +4 18:05:28 <cwickert> sorry, I got distirbed by real live 18:06:35 <kylem> +1 18:06:39 <cwickert> +1 18:06:49 <nirik> #agreed feature is approved. 18:06:50 <kylem> sorry, was catching up on actually reading it 18:06:51 <kylem> heh 18:06:58 <cwickert> same here 18:07:03 <nirik> #topic #594 F16Feature: F16 BTRFS default file system - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F16BtrfsDefaultFs 18:07:03 <nirik> .fesco 594 18:07:04 <zodbot> nirik: #594 (F16Feature: F16 BTRFS default file system - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F16BtrfsDefaultFs) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/594 18:07:07 <nirik> here's a fun one. ;) 18:07:16 <fenrus02> w00t 18:07:53 <gholms> Here's one with a bad Release Notes section. 18:07:55 * mclasen would point out the lack of desktop integration, but btrfs is in the same boat as lvm here 18:08:11 * nirik is still waiting for a fsck. Also, can you do encrypted btrfs without lvm? 18:08:13 <notting> i don't think there's enough info here to make a reasonable default/non-default decision 18:08:19 <mmaslano> I'd like to point out https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=689509 18:08:21 <drago01> mclasen: chicken-egg ? 18:08:32 <mmaslano> and especially https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=689127 18:08:35 <fenrus02> nirik, fsck exists. it does not yet correct errors, just point them out. 18:08:42 <mmaslano> nirik: fun as you said 18:08:51 <nirik> fenrus02: doesn't even do that here. ;) I need to followup on it tho 18:08:54 <mclasen> drago01: sure; would just be good to give that some thought (and we will, maybe not in time for f16 though) 18:09:12 <fenrus02> mmaslano, one of those is due to compression 18:09:13 <drago01> *nod* 18:09:20 <ajax> "would be good to expose some of the different features of BTRFS via anaconda". which? 18:09:34 <nirik> compression perhaps 18:09:38 <fenrus02> ajax, subvolmes for /home 18:09:47 <ajax> don't tell me, tell the feature page. 18:10:08 * nirik would like more info, etc... so no for now, but will add questions to talk page. 18:10:23 <notting> so, yeah, i'm -1 for now, but not against approving it later with more info 18:10:27 <ajax> shipping an unrecoverable fs doesn't seem awesome to me. 18:10:28 <mmaslano> -1 18:10:37 <mclasen> ajax: the benefits section seems to list the biggies 18:10:52 <fenrus02> ajax, see zfs for example 18:11:11 <cwickert> I think I am +1, let them try and we can still revert it later 18:11:45 <josef> argh fricking utc crap 18:11:50 <nirik> hey josef. 18:11:56 <nirik> we were just talking about btrfs. ;) 18:12:01 <josef> i spend 20 minutes just finding out i'm 30 minutes late 18:12:13 <fenrus02> cwickert, fixing btrfsck should be real soon, so by f16 alpha, it should be available easily
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