----- "John5342" <john5342@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Firstly, not all people turn the automatic upgrade on. > > Secondly, there are folks use rpm -hiv or build from srpm. > > In that case, they are more likely to spot the bugs. > > I am not talking about upgrades. I am talking about updates. Most > people just run updates when packagekit (or similar) tells them to. > In > a proper release updates are released together. In Denture they will > be updated out of order and from various different releases. As for > people rebuilding from srpms etc they represent a minority and it is > in any case irrelevant. What you said is true, but since what Denture is for unsupported released, which is unlikely getting any updated. Your case is not suitable for unsupported release. > > If what you said is completely true, I would not even bother to > propose Denture. :-) > > What i said is plain and simple fact. The scenario i mentioned is one > of several points of failure. I am not suggesting it is a problem > with Denture itself but it is a problem with the real world. Thats just > life. But the fact does not cover all packages, so that's why I need Denture, and take the risk. That's also life. :-) > This isn't about whether Y-1.3 will be pulled in. If you do what the > vast majority of users do then you will get the equivelant of yum > update. Regardless of whether X-1.3 explicitly specifies Y-1.3. Y-1.3 > will still be updated siply because there is a later version. When > you > update using Denture however you could easily end up with X-1.3 and > Y-1.2 for any number of reasons. Yes I could hit the bump, so are the guys that using source build and other distribution which have not yet put Y-1.3 to their repos. > > So do other package managers. > > Tell me, why are you so sure that the current version packages > > don't break the system secretly and user and the package managers > > has no way of knowing until it is too late? > > If you read all i wrote then you will find that has been answered > thoroughly already. I also states my justification why the packages should specify the exact depended versions. > You have found the exceptions there. Try looking at some others. I see. What I mainly need Denture help is for end-user applications. I am not quite sure about using Denture for library or toolkit directly. > I am sure even your dependency versions become stale. Taking your > example of dvdauthor > BuildRequires: libpng-devel > BuildRequires: flex > BuildRequires: bison > BuildRequires: fribidi-devel > BuildRequires: freetype-devel > BuildRequires: GraphicsMagick-devel > BuildRequires: autoconf automake gettext-devel > > In a single release you perhaps can be pretty sure that the versions > in the build root are good enough to satisfy dvdauthor. If on the > other hand you end up with a version of one of these packages from a > previous release due to blacklisting then things may well start to > break. > > Would you however insist that all of these are bugs? Mmm, BuildRequires: libdvdread-devel >= 0.9.4-4 BuildRequires: libxml2-devel >= 2.6.0 Without these, dvdauthor might break even within current release. You were saying that version is not important? :-) Nevertheless, you raise a valid point that version information is sometime unavailable or unreliable. But this can be overcome by a datafile that stores correct version. > The result could be great but i can be pretty sure that the actually > stability of a partially updated system is probably much worse than > rawhide and people who are happy with that level of stability would > ore than likely just prefer actual recent release For people who requires absolute stable, they can just use CentOS/ RHEL and totally ignore Denture. Denture is for the people that need to keep some critical packages, but wouldn't mind to take some risk. :-) > I like the idea because the concept is great. The idea that you can > run whatever version of whatever package you want and get the best of > all worlds is a nice dream but unfortunately i also know that it is > only a dream and in real life it simply can't work because the huge > requirements that Denture would place on packaging just can't be > done. "Whatever" is possibly the problem. Denture only eats what it can eat. :-) According to my experience, some of the dreams can come true. > When i was working on my project i quickly realised that for the > reasons i have been trying to explain (falling on deaf ears > apparently). Please don't assume that I am not aware your concerns. Did you see my answers about them? > I really wish you all the best. I really do. I would love to be > surprised and see it work but i won't be holding my breath. Good > luck! Thanks! -- Ding-Yi Chen Software Engineer Internationalization Group Red Hat, Inc. Looking to carve out IT costs? www.apac.redhat.com/promo/carveoutcosts/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
