Re: Fedora (Linux) is Destroying it self

[Michael Nielsen <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dan Williams wrote:

On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 15:56 +0200, Michael Nielsen wrote:
  

2. The network interfaces are being bound to the user interface, such 
that if your X fails for some reason, or you are running on a text 
console, you are unable to open the wireless configuration, at least 
it's not obvious how you do it, without X running. The configuration for 
the network interfaces are so tightly bound to the user interface, such 
that if there is no user interface there are no network interfaces.
    

This is false.
  

NetworkManager will read (and write!) system network configuration for
wired & wireless devices, and can bring those devices up before login.
I think what you may be missing is an easy one-command tool to
activate/deactivate those, and that's fairly simple with dbus-send, and
yes, its something that should be written.  But in now way is network
tied to a UI or unusable without a UI.
  

No it's not false, from the users point of view...   Use the wireless connection function
in gnome, and reboot - does your machine go on to the network, before you log in or after?
>From a users point of view, the Network is directly tied into the GUI.  

I have tried to find out how to get the wireless connection that can be configured
under gnome or kde, to work, so that I can get NTP to function properly, and how
to get fstab to mount NFS, and CIFS drives during boot.    Without having to
go to the command line - it is easy for me use the command line - but try to explain that to
a non-power user, over the phone.

There does not appear to be any obvious way to make the network configuration
permanent, the nice applet for connecting to the wireless networks, does not seem to
have any way to write a permanent configuration.   the other graphical application
under administration tools, can do it, but is no where near as easy to use.

Not that it really is a big problem for me, as I usually end up disabling it, and switching to manually
configuring wpa_supplicant, and the network interfaces.

I've entered this debate, because I'm concerned with the perceived problems that these
forks are causing, and that things are now becoming non-obvious, such as the network
issue.   These kinds of things are the arguments that are used for NOT using Linux.

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