On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 04:40:01AM -0500, William Jon McCann wrote: > > Unless you want our project to be a pile of choose your own shit like > debian, you need to make choices. The choices you need to make depend > on what you want to produce. What you want to produce depends on who > you are making it for and what you want them to experience. The question of who contributes is also an interesting question. What you want to produce also determines who is interested in contributing. Some projects are not really mainstream Fedora, yet they bring contributors who may also contribute to the core of Fedora (like XFce, lxde, OLPC...). > If you want to create a product that people will love to use then you > need to make tough choices and stay focused. Without focus, Fedora > doesn't stand a chance against Ubuntu - never mind the real > competition. I am confused. Ubuntu also has all of debian (not in the main repo but in the universe repo). But maybe you want to compete with the main repo only. Anyway I am not sure that competing with Ubuntu is possible given that the Ubuntu goals are different, less focused on latest upstream, with more stability. > The right choices made for the right reasons, components deeply and > broadly integrated, solidly engineered, well tested, highly polished. > I'd prefer to hear the technology of Fedora described in these terms. > Unfortunately, this is difficult or impossible to achieve with the > currently prevailing bag-of-loosely-coupled-packages conception of the > project. Highly integrated components in Fedora tend to break a lot and are rarely highly polished, not only loosely integrated components (in my opinion). I don't know where the idea that Fedora breaking comes from the 'bag-of-loosely-coupled-packages conception', but I disagree. It remains true that things are even more broken for loosely integrated components that need to play well with some core components, for example ConsoleKit has been broken for all the display managers except gdm and kdm. But Fedora users you are targeting won't never come in touch with anything else than gdm and kdm. > If you intend to be just some online package repository, a build > system, a wiki, and mailing lists then sure things are working just > fine. But to me, this is all so much asphalt without a place to go. Having a lot of packages doesn't prevent them from being highly integrated. For example icewm and fvwm are well integrated in Fedora, though they are not in typical Fedora setup. My personal experience is that lack of integration also come from core component packagers not looking at patches that would allow to have better integration (as in the consoleKit issue), and because the components were not designed from the ground up to be easy to integrate. -- Pat -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
