2008/11/18 Joshua C. <joshuacov@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > 2008/11/18 James Antill <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: >> On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 07:41 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: >>> On 17.11.2008 23:16, Jon Masters wrote: >>> > >>> > Various other communities (and distributions) have made a >>> > point out of "stable" releases where the "big ticket" feature is >>> > stabilization, so I think it would be a win to consider that. >>> >>> I disagree: It seems to me a lot of the current Fedora users like the >>> "latest bells and whistles" style (like you called it in the mail that >>> started this discussion) I for one really like the steady stream of >>> kernel-updates, as that greatly improves hardware support over time! On >>> OpenSuse or Ubuntu you are often forced to run the development branches >>> when you need newer driver (just like it was in the early Fedora days >>> and in the RHL days). >> >> Indeed, and someone else wants the latest transmission and someone else >> the latest pidgin and someone else... >> So you either need 100x distributions, or the latest stuff of >> everything. >> >>> > I would personally much >>> > prefer that stuff that used to work didn't break randomly, and that >>> > stable Fedora updates wouldn't result in me wondering whether suspend, >>> > graphics, SELinux, or some other feature that was working was going to >>> > break today. This isn't actually a rant, more pointing out a necessity. >>> >>> Agreed, but I tend to say we should work towards a solution where we can >>> ship the "latest bells and whistles" and nevertheless provide stability. >>> >>> I for one think we need something like that: >>> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-August/msg00025.html >>> >>> The relevant part: >>> >>> """ >>> I more and more think that we should consider to switch to a more >>> rolling release scheme with different usage levels. Roughly something >>> like the following maybe: >>> >>> >>> Level 1 -- rawhide, similar to how it is today (a bit more stable and >>> less breakage would be nice, but that's in the works already) >>> >>> Level 2pre -- things that got tested in rawhide, that are still young, >>> but known to work well in rawhide; similar to what updates-testing for >>> F9 is today; >>> >>> Level 2 -- things that worked fine for some time in 2pre; similar to >>> what F9 is today >>> >>> Level 3pre -- things that worked fine for some time in 2 >>> >>> Level 3 -- things that worked fine for some time in 2pre >>> >>> >>> Level 3pre and 3 are like F8-updates-testing and F8, but with the >>> difference that everything has to be tested and shipped in level 2 (aka >>> F9) first. >>> """ >> >> Ok, the above _only_ works if you can convince all the packagers that >> they should backport fixes ... or you end up with things broken in >> "Level 2+" until a newer "fixed"¹ package manages to come up through the >> levels. >> >> This "rolling relases" is roughly what we do with yum releases now, but >> manually and so doesn't have the backport requirements problems. So if >> we know that version 123 is pretty good but has a couple of annoying >> edge case bugs ... we don't release into Fedora 8. Although even then >> sometimes things get through. >> If someone thinks there is something magic that can be done to make >> releases bug free, they should speak to someone involved in something >> that was released into Fedora 9 and will be in RHEL-5.3. I know there >> are a couple of packages that did that. It wasn't magic, but it sure >> wasn't anything you can easily get people to do for Fedora (IMNSHO). >> >> >> ¹ May contain other bugs. >> >> -- >> James Antill <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Fedora >> >> -- >> fedora-devel-list mailing list >> fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list >> > maybe these 2 threads should be merged: > 1. F11 Proposal: Stabilization > 2. Proposal - "Slow updates" repo > I like fedora because of the "latest bells and whistles". If something breaks (and it often does), then it reminds me why i chose fedora. every new code will always be full of bugs but there are also other linux distros - (just some of them) opensuse and ubuntu. this (IMHO) contradicts to the goal of fedora: the "latest bells and whistles". -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list