A lot of small changes really don't make sense discussed *in isolation*, whether it be: - Padding on the panel - Icons on menus or not - Show desktop button there by default There's going to be pros and cons, its going to look better to some people, and worse to others, but important pros and cons are going to have already occurred to the people making the change. There's no point in having an email thread where people comment on whether it looks better or worse to them, what features they personally use, etc. The chance of any new information coming out of such a discussion is basically zero. What kind of discussions and suggestions do make sense here? - How does the Fedora desktop work for your family? Where do they have trouble? What Fedora features do they love and miss when they user Windows at work? - How does the Fedora desktop work you? That's legitimate, just remember, you are not even a typical Fedora user, much less a typical computer user. So, discussion from this perspective is best if you can suggest ways that make Fedora better for you *and everyone else*. - What usability nits should we be fixing? Again, remember that the Fedora and GNOME philosophy is that usability isn't a zero sum game. Improvements are best when they make things better for everybody. And then they don't need to be configuration options. - How can we make Fedora look better? The best way to make a case here is often screenshots/mockups that show how changes fit together. And of course, appearance is personal, so if it looks obviously better to, it may not look obviously better to everyone. (or it may!) - How should the application you are packaging integrate with the desktop? - Random technical details related to desktop software; proposals for new subsystems, etc. I think it is great that Matthias is posting updates about the polish changes that he and Jon are making. I think it would be even better if it was possible to post some screenshots and lists of planned changes ahead of time. (As always, time is limited, things get done last minute, hopefully we can move in that direction in the future.) But *not* so people can sit here and run down the list of planned changes one by one and debate them. (If you think there is secret cabal that does that inside Red Hat that sits and does that in a meeting you are wrong.) So people can propose additional changes, can show off screenshots where they used 7 pixels of padding instead of 10 and added two on the bottom and it looked way better, and so people will know where we are going and how their work fits into the picture. If you want to be part of the Fedora desktop team, don't worry about whether you are being consulted on every individual decision. Nobody is, whether they have a @redhat email or not. Worry about what you can be working on to make the desktop better. If you doing cool things to make the desktop better and you are being ignored, and you aren't getting those cool things in, complain! And if you want to help, and have the time and skills to help, and its not clear what you should be doing to help, complain about that too. - Owen -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
