On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 23:03 +0100, David Nielsen wrote: > Okay since you seem to think I rant I'll do an itemed list, sound good? > > 1) From previous debates on the list, Echo specifically does not target > being accessible - that is perfectly okay but it makes it a less > appealing choice as the new default. > It does not specifically target it, but we do care about it nonetheless. You seems to have better info about accessibility and people with disabilities than we have, you can at least say what would you expect from us. The Echo styling guidelines are still not set in stone. > 2) Originally the solution proposed was making it easier to replace the > entire set of artwork for all the distro - however I believe we should > have good defaults on top of this solution.[1] > +1 > 3) Decisions like targetting a11y by default should be set as a common > goal (even if an undeclared one right now AFAIK), thus we should all > take it into serious consideration. I'm some what saddened that the > artwork team does not appear to take this group of people in account > when selecting defaults. > We're doing our best, but we need to please as much people as possible. The Echo theme was originally started by Diana, who was a redhat employee, we're taken over it later in the process and we are still learning. Suggestions are welcome. > 4) Filing bugs against Echo is pointless on this issue since the design > specifically excludes accessibility concerns. The same goes for the > occasionally odd use of emblems[2] > No, it's not. We does not explicitly say anywhere that we exclude accessibility concerns and while it is not our primary goal, filling bugs (preferably on hosted.fp.org) against the worst cases might help. The emblems as they are now are buggy and we need to fix their usage in the future. Basically, we would use pluses for symbolising the action of creating/adding something new and stars for the state of being something new or incoming. The blue stars you see currently in many Echo icons should be all replaced with pluses. > 5) What looks good is subjective, what works for people with sight > impairments is at least something we can take into consideration[3] > +1 > 6) Making a spin specially for handicapped people is a wrong solution > and gives the impression that handicapped people are second class > citizens in Fedora. Opt-out is a better option, especially given the > many untested codepaths it will create to default to off and focusing QA > on that. This is not however an artwork decision, it was merely brought > up and as such deserved an answer. > I don't think that making an optimised spin for handicapped people gives the impression that they are second class. Does the gamers spin, or developers spin makes gamers and developers seconds class? No. I think the contrary. But as I noted in one of my previous mails, it is more or less to have the right things enabled by default, not just about having choice. But we need the choice first, and I agree with you that it should be worked on (but this concern is better discussed on the -devel list). Martin > - David > > [1] I'll file bugs against components I know are hard to theme > currently, I merely assumed this was an artwork team task since they > provided the suggestion in the first place so I was under the impression > this was already done. > > [2] There seems to be mixed use of symbols to indicate new and add, I > filed a bug once upon a time on this and was told this was also by > design. > > [3] Naturally we can't fix all the problems with one set but we can > select a good set of defaults to hit the greatest common benefactor, > GNOME already ships high contrast themes and other a11y icon themes for > many cases that do not fit in the GCB catagory. > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-art-list mailing list > Fedora-art-list@xxxxxxxxxx > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list _______________________________________________ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
