man, 07 08 2006 kl. 08:37 +0300, skrev Nicu Buculei: > David Nielsen wrote: > > søn, 06 08 2006 kl. 11:56 +0200, skrev Chris Chabot: > > > >> Of course they are valid points that should be thought of (small > >> version of the icons) but to write "to be brutally honest, this is a > >> huge step down from bluecurve" sounds to like an intend to be negative > >> and not fair nor honest. > > > > No, I had not intention of being fair, I was being honest, I think if we > > ship Echo by default it is taking a gigantic step in the direction of > > screwing our users, especially those of us with poor eyesight. If you > > don't like my opinion then address my concerns don't attack my person. > > Indeed, if you were fair, you have considered what Diana said *days* > before you: > "help is also needed on creating simplified versions of the icons to > look good in the 16x16 size and whatnot. Do let me know if you'd like to > help but don't know where to start" > and > "All 16x16 icons should also be "head-on"/"on table view" with no > shadow...it get's messy at that size" > https://www.redhat.com/archives//2006-August/msg00010.html I do believe I have prior art on the concern about this new theme, I proposed adopting Tango months ago without seeing any debate (that was on fedora-desktop at that time fedora-art wasn't listed on the wiki or at least I hadn't discovered it.. we are not very good at announcing new lists). At the time the only replies I did get was that if Tango got adopted upstream that would likely be the default so I did not push the issue further deciding to take the work upstream instead. Imagine my surprise when that was my impression and I wake up one day to this new icon theme - we should definitely debate the issue of icon theme vs. system theme later btw. since it's not enough that I can change the icon theme easily when it doesn't fit in the entire system theme (boot, login, icons, sounds, etc.) Thus the availablity of seperate icon themes is a very bad argument for an illconceived system theme, you throw out consistency. I feel I put a great deal of restrain on my opinion, nowhere did I like you resort to vague ad hominem attacks. What is my interest in being fair, would you like it better if I simply padded Diana on the back and told her I loved the new icons when the basic design presents serious issues for people I work with. If I have to go and show off Fedora to my former collegues I will install Human Azul or a similar Tango derived icon theme because those are the only ones aside Bluecurve (which like Echo is appalingly lacking in coverage and getting to the same place as Tango is today will take ages) consider the fact that people might want to look at their icons in an actual desktop setting. I think that is the problem with Echo, they were designed top down, we should start with the most common case for a given icon and optimize that - then scale up or down as needed. This means starting with an icon that works on 16x16/24x24 in most cases, anything else makes puppies cry. Try walking down the street and counting how many people wear glasses - then tell me these are not valid concerns and now isn't the time to bring it up. Before we roll out Echo and get ripped in the press and by our users. In case you haven't guessed already, I am mildly handicapped and I wear glasses - that is why I care so passionately about usability and accessability, I get a small taste of what many of my friends and collegues have to live with every day. I could tell you some inspiring stories of how computers can give handicapped people new lives and why it is a good idea to consider it when designing your system and interface but I'll save that for another day. Echo is kicking people who are already down and I merely question if that is really a good thing. - David _______________________________________________ @xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
