On 2019/05/28, Daniel Vetter wrote: > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:03 AM Koenig, Christian > <Christian.Koenig@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Am 28.05.19 um 09:38 schrieb Daniel Vetter: > > > [SNIP] > > >> Might be a good idea looking into reverting it partially, so that at > > >> least command submission and buffer allocation is still blocked. > > > I thought the issue is a lot more than vainfo, it's pretty much every > > > hacked up compositor under the sun getting this wrong one way or > > > another. Thinking about this some more, I also have no idea how you'd > > > want to deprecate rendering on primary nodes in general. Apparently > > > that breaks -modesetting already, and probably lots more compositors. > > > And it looks like we're finally achieve the goal kms set out to 10 > > > years ago, and new compositors are sprouting up all the time. I guess > > > we could just break them all (on new hardware) and tell them to all > > > suck it up. But I don't think that's a great option. And just > > > deprecating this on amdgpu is going to be even harder, since then > > > everywhere else it'll keep working, and it's just amdgpu.ko that looks > > > broken. > > > > > > Aside: I'm not supporting Emil's idea here because it fixes any issues > > > Intel has - Intel doesn't care. I support it because reality sucks, > > > people get this render vs. primary vs. multi-gpu prime wrong all the > > > time (that's also why we have hardcoded display+gpu pairs in mesa for > > > the various soc combinations out there), and this looks like a > > > pragmatic solution. It'd be nice if every compositor and everything > > > else would perfectly support multi gpu and only use render nodes for > > > rendering, and only primary nodes for display. But reality is that > > > people hack on stuff until gears on screen and then move on to more > > > interesting things (to them). So I don't think we'll ever win this :-/ > > > > Yeah, but this is a classic case of working around user space issues by > > making kernel changes instead of fixing user space. > > > > Having privileged (output control) and unprivileged (rendering control) > > functionality behind the same node is a mistake we have made a long time > > ago and render nodes finally seemed to be a way to fix that. > > > > I mean why are compositors using the primary node in the first place? > > Because they want to have access to privileged resources I think and in > > this case it is perfectly ok to do so. > > > > Now extending unprivileged access to the primary node actually sounds > > like a step into the wrong direction to me. > > > > I rather think that we should go down the route of completely dropping > > command submission and buffer allocation through the primary node for > > non master clients. And then as next step at some point drop support for > > authentication/flink. > > > > I mean we have done this with UMS as well and I don't see much other way > > to move forward and get rid of those ancient interface in the long term. > > Well kms had some really good benefits that drove quick adoption, like > "suspend/resume actually has a chance of working" or "comes with > buffer management so you can run multiple gears". > > The render node thing is a lot more niche use case (prime, better priv > separation), plus "it's cleaner design". And the "cleaner design" part > is something that empirically doesn't seem to matter :-/ Just two > examples: > - KHR_display/leases just iterated display resources on the fd needed > for rendering (and iirc there was even a patch to expose that for > render nodes too so it works with DRI3), because implementing > protocols is too hard. Barely managed to stop that one before it > happened. > - Various video players use the vblank ioctl on directly to schedule > frames, without telling the compositor. I discovered that when I > wanted to limite the vblank ioctl to master clients only. Again, > apparently too hard to use the existing extensions, or fix the bugs in > there, or whatever. One userspace got fixed last year, but it'll > probably get copypasted around forever :-/ > > So I don't think we'll ever manage to roll a clean split out, and best > we can do is give in and just hand userspace what it wants. As much as > that's misguided and unclean and all that. Maybe it'll result in a > least fewer stuff getting run as root to hack around this, because > fixing properly seems not to be on the table. > > The beauty of kms is that we've achieved the mission, everyone's > writing their own thing. Which is also terrible, and I don't think > it'll get better. With the risk of coming rude I will repeat my earlier comment: The problem is _neither_ Intel nor libva specific. That said, let's step back for a moment and consider: - the "block everything but KMS via the primary node" idea is great but orthogonal - the series does address issues that are vendor-agnostic - by default this series does _not_ cause any regression be that for new or old userspace - there are two trivial solutions, if the AMD team has concerns about closed-source/private stack depending on the old behaviour If they want I can even write the patches ;-) That said, the notable comments received so far are: - rework patch 13/13 to remove the DRM_AUTH from prime fd to/from handle. I'm OK but this will change the return code - from EACCES to ENOSYS - vmwgfx will need a check on the reference ioctl(s) - IIRC Thomas is planning to drop nearly all DRM_AUTH instances in their driver. Christian, as mentioned before - this series does _not_ add functionality to render nodes. It effectively paves a way towards removing DRM_AUTH. I understand the series may feel a bit dirty. Yet I would gladly address any technical concerns you have. Thanks Emil _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
