Hi Liam,
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:46:07PM -0800, Liam Mark wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, Brian Starkey wrote:
>
> > Hi Liam,
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 08:59:44PM -0800, Liam Mark wrote:
> > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2018, Brian Starkey wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Liam,
> > > >
> > > > I'm missing a bit of context here, but I did read the v1 thread.
> > > > Please accept my apologies if I'm re-treading trodden ground.
> > > >
> > > > I do know we're chasing nebulous ion "problems" on our end, which
> > > > certainly seem to be related to what you're trying to fix here.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 03:15:06PM -0700, Liam Mark wrote:
> > > > >Based on the suggestions from Laura I created a first draft for a change
> > > > >which will attempt to ensure that uncached mappings are only applied to
> > > > >ION memory who's cache lines have been cleaned.
> > > > >It does this by providing cached mappings (for uncached ION allocations)
> > > > >until the ION buffer is dma mapped and successfully cleaned, then it
> > > > drops
> > > > >the userspace mappings and when pages are accessed they are faulted back
> > > > >in and uncached mappings are created.
> > > >
> > > > If I understand right, there's no way to portably clean the cache of
> > > > the kernel mapping before we map the pages into userspace. Is that
> > > > right?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, it isn't always possible to clean the caches for an uncached mapping
> > > because a device is required by the DMA APIs to do cache maintenance and
> > > there isn't necessarily a device available (dma_buf_attach may not yet
> > > have been called).
> > >
> > > > Alternatively, can we just make ion refuse to give userspace a
> > > > non-cached mapping for pages which are mapped in the kernel as cached?
> > >
> > > These pages will all be mapped as cached in the kernel for 64 bit (kernel
> > > logical addresses) so you would always be refusing to create a non-cached mapping.
> >
> > And that might be the sane thing to do, no?
> >
> > AFAIK there are still pages which aren't ever mapped as cached (e.g.
> > dma_declare_coherent_memory(), anything under /reserved-memory marked
> > as no-map). If those are exposed as an ion heap, then non-cached
> > mappings would be fine, and permitted.
> >
>
> Sounds like you are suggesting using carveouts to support uncached?
>
No, I'm just saying that ion can't give out uncached _CPU_ mappings
for pages which are already mapped on the CPU as cached.
> We have many multimedia use cases which use very large amounts of uncached
> memory, uncached memory is used as a performance optimization because CPU
> access won't happen so it allows us to skip cache maintenance for all the
> dma map and dma unmap calls. To create carveouts large enough to support
> to support the worst case scenarios could result in very large carveouts.
>
> Large carveouts like this would likely result in poor memory utilizations
> (since they are tuned for worst case) which would likely have significant
> performance impacts (more limited memory causes more frequent memory
> reclaim ect...).
>
> Also estimating for worst case could be difficult since the amount of
> uncached memory could be app dependent.
> Unfortunately I don't think this would make for a very scalable solution.
>
Sure, I understand the desire not to use carveouts. I'm not suggesting
carveouts are a viable alternative.
> > >
> > > > Would userspace using the dma-buf sync ioctl around its accesses do
> > > > the "right thing" in that case?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't think so, the dma-buf sync ioctl require a device to peform cache
> > > maintenance, but as mentioned above a device may not be available.
> > >
> >
> > If a device didn't attach yet, then no cache maintenance is
> > necessary. The only thing accessing the memory is the CPU, via a
> > cached mapping, which should work just fine. So far so good.
> >
>
> Unfortunately not.
> Scenario:
> - Client allocates uncached memory.
> - Client calls the DMA_BUF_IOCTL_SYNC IOCT IOCTL with flags
> DMA_BUF_SYNC_START (but this doesn't do any cache maintenance since there
> isn't any device)
> - Client mmap the memory (ION creates uncached mapping)
> - Client reads from that uncached mapping
I think I maybe wasn't clear with my proposal. The sequence should be
like this:
- Client allocates memory
- If this is from a region which the CPU has mapped as cached, then
that's not "uncached" memory - it's cached memory - and you have
to treat it as such.
- Client calls the DMA_BUF_IOCTL_SYNC IOCTL with flags
DMA_BUF_SYNC_START (but this doesn't do any cache maintenance since
there isn't any device)
- Client mmaps the memory
- ion creates a _cached_ mapping into the userspace process. ion
*must not* create an uncached mapping.
- Client reads from that cached mapping
- It sees zeroes, as expected.
This proposal ensures that everyone will *always* see correct data if
they use the DMA APIs properly (device accesses via
dma_buf_{map,unmap}, CPU access via {begin,end}_cpu_access).
>
> Because memory has not been cleaned (we haven't had a device yet) the
> zeros that were written to this memory could still be in the cache (since
> they were written with a cached mapping), this means that the unprivilived
> userpace client is now potentially reading sensitive kernel data....
>
This is precisely why you can't just "pretend" that those pages
are uncached. You can't have the same memory mapped with different
attributes and get consistent behaviour.
> > If there are already attachments, then ion_dma_buf_begin_cpu_access()
> > will sync for CPU access against all of the attached devices, and
> > again the CPU should see the right thing.
> >
> > In the other direction, ion_dma_buf_end_cpu_access() will sync for
> > device access for all currently attached devices. If there's no
> > attached devices yet, then there's nothing to do until there is (only
> > thing accessing is CPU via a CPU-cached mapping).
> >
> > When the first (or another) device attaches, then when it maps the
> > buffer, the map_dma_buf callback should do whatever sync-ing is needed
> > for that device.
> >
> > I might be way off with my understanding of the various DMA APIs, but
> > this is how I think they're meant to work.
> >
> > > > Given that as you pointed out, the kernel does still have a cached
> > > > mapping to these pages, trying to give the CPU a non-cached mapping of
> > > > those same pages while preserving consistency seems fraught. Wouldn't
> > > > it be better to make sure all CPU mappings are cached, and have CPU
> > > > clients use the dma_buf_{begin,end}_cpu_access() hooks to get
> > > > consistency where needed?
> > > >
> > >
> > > It is fraught, but unfortunately you can't rely on
> > > dma_buf_{begin,end}_cpu_access() to do cache maintenance as these calls
> > > require a device, and a device is not always available.
> >
> > As above, if there's really no device, then no syncing is needed
> > because only the CPU is accessing the buffer, and only ever via cached
> > mappings.
> >
>
> Sure you can use cached mappings, but with cached memory to ensure cache
> coherency you would always need to do cache maintenance at dma map and dma
> unmap (since you can't rely on their being a device when
> dma_buf_{begin,end}_cpu_access() hooks are called).
As you've said below, you can't skip cache maintenance in the general
case - the first time a device maps the buffer, you need to clean the
cache to make sure the memset(0) is seen by the device.
> But with this cached memory you get poor performance because you are
> frequently doing cache mainteance uncessarily because there *could* be CPU access.
>
> The reason we want to use uncached allocations, with uncached mappings, is
> to avoid all this uncessary cache maintenance.
>
OK I think this is the key - you don't actually care whether the
mappings are non-cached, you just don't want to pay a sync penalty if
the CPU never touched the buffer.
In that case, then to me the right thing to do is make ion use
dma_map_sg_attrs(..., DMA_ATTR_SKIP_CPU_SYNC) in ion_map_dma_buf(), if
it knows that the CPU hasn't touched the buffer (which it does - from
{begin,end}_cpu_access).
That seems to be exactly what it's there for:
/*
* DMA_ATTR_SKIP_CPU_SYNC: Allows platform code to skip synchronization of
* the CPU cache for the given buffer assuming that it has been already
* transferred to 'device' domain.
*/
The very first time you map the buffer on a device, you have to sync
(transfer to 'device' domain). After that, if you never touch the
buffer on the CPU, then you'll never pay the CPU cache maintenance
penalty.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >This change has the following potential disadvantages:
> > > > >- It assumes that userpace clients won't attempt to access the buffer
> > > > >while it is being mapped as we are removing the userpspace mappings at
> > > > >this point (though it is okay for them to have it mapped)
> > > > >- It assumes that kernel clients won't hold a kernel mapping to the
> > > > buffer
> > > > >(ie dma_buf_kmap) while it is being dma-mapped. What should we do if
> > > > there
> > > > >is a kernel mapping at the time of dma mapping, fail the mapping, warn?
> > > > >- There may be a performance penalty as a result of having to fault in
> > > > the
> > > > >pages after removing the userspace mappings.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if the dma-buf sync ioctl might provide a way for userspace
> > > > to opt-in to when the zap/fault happens. Zap on (DMA_BUF_SYNC_WRITE |
> > > > DMA_BUF_SYNC_WRITE_END) and fault on (DMA_BUF_SYNC_READ |
> > > > DMA_BUF_SYNC_START)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not sure I understand, can you elaborate.
> > > Are you also adding a requirment that ION pages can't be mmaped during a
> > > call to dma_buf_map_attachment?
> >
> > I was only suggesting that zapping the mappings "at random" (from
> > userspace's perspective), and then faulting them back in (also "at
> > random"), might cause unexpected and not-controllable stalls in the
> > app. We could use the ioctl hooks as an explicit indication from the
> > app that now is a good time to zap the mapping and/or fault back in
> > the whole buffer. begin_cpu_access is allowed to be a "slow"
> > operation, so apps should already be expecting to get stalled on the
> > sync ioctl.
> >
>
> I think we have to do the zapping when have a device with which we can
> then immediately clean the caches for the memory.
>
> The dma_buf_map_attachement seems like a logical time to do this, we have
> a device and the user should not be doing CPU access at this time.
> There is no guarantee you will ever have a device attached when the ioctl
> hooks are called so this could mean you never get a chance to switch to
> actual uncached mappings if you only try to do this from the ioctl hooks.
>
You can always zap in the ioctl. You just might end up having to
create a cached mapping for userspace again if a device doesn't attach
before the next time it calls the SYNC_START ioctl.
So yeah, with your approach of trying to switch userspace over to
non-cached mappings, I think map_attachment is the best place to do
the whole shebang, to avoid unnecessary work.
> The one-of hit of having to fault the pages back in is unfortunate but I
> can't seem to find a better time to do it.
That part you really could do in the SYNC_START ioctl, it's just not
symmetric.
Thanks,
-Brian
>
> Liam
>
> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
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