On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 9:15 PM Knut Omang <knut.omang@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Tue, 2018-10-23 at 16:57 -0700, Brendan Higgins wrote: <snip> > > Brendan, I regret you weren't at this year's testing and fuzzing workshop at > LPC last week so we could have continued our discussions from last year there! Likewise! Unfortunately, I could not make it. So it goes. > > I hope we can work on this for a while longer before anything gets merged. > Maybe it can be topic for a longer session in a future test related workshop? I don't see why we cannot just discuss it here as we are already doing. Besides, you are mostly interested in out of tree testing, right? I don't see how this precludes anything that you are trying to do with KTF. I think the best way to develop something like what I am trying to do with KUnit is gradually, in tree, and with the active input and participation of the Linux kernel community. > > Links to more info about KTF: > ------ > Git repo: https://github.com/oracle/ktf > Formatted docs: http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~knuto/ktf/ > > LWN mention from my presentation at LPC'17: https://lwn.net/Articles/735034/ > Oracle blog post: https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/oracles-new-kernel-test-framework-for-linux-v2 > OSS'18 presentation slides: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Test-Driven-Kernel-Development-Knut-Omang-Oracle.pdf > > In the documentation (see http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~knuto/ktf/introduction.html) > we present some more motivation for choices made with KTF. > As described in that introduction, we believe in a more pragmatic approach > to unit testing for the kernel than the classical "mock everything" approach, > except for typical heavily algorithmic components that has interfaces simple to mock, > such as container implementations, or components like page table traversal > algorithms or memory allocators, where the benefit of being able to "listen" > on the mock interfaces needed pays handsomely off. I am not advocating that we mock everything. Using as much real code dependencies as possible for code under test is a pretty common position, and one which I adhere to myself. > > We also used strategies to compile kernel code in user mode, > for parts of the code which seemed easy enough to mock interfaces for. > I also looked at UML back then, but dismissed it in favor of the > more lightweight approach of just compiling the code under test > directly in user mode, with a minimal partly hand crafted, flat mock layer. Is this new? When I tried your code out, I had to install the kernel objects into my host kernel. Indeed, your documentation references having to install kernel modules on the host: http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~knuto/ktf/installation.html > > > KUnit is heavily inspired by JUnit, Python's unittest.mock, and > > Googletest/Googlemock for C++. KUnit provides facilities for defining > > unit test cases, grouping related test cases into test suites, providing > > common infrastructure for running tests, mocking, spying, and much more. > > I am curious, with the intention of only running in user mode anyway, I made it possible to "port" KUnit to other architectures. Nevertheless, I believe all unit tests should be able to run without depending on hardware or some special test harness. If I see a unit test, I should not need to know anything about it just to run it. Since there is no way to have all possible hardware configurations a priori, all tests must be able to be run in a place that doesn't depend in hardware; hence they should all be runnable as just normal plane old user space programs with no dependency on a host kernel or host hardware. > why not try to build upon Googletest/Googlemock (or a similar C unit > test framework if C is desired), instead of "reinventing" > specific kernel macros for the tests? I would love to reuse Googletest/Googlemock if it were possible; I have used it a lot on other projects that I have worked on and think it is great, but I need something I can check into the Linux kernel; this requirement rules out Googletest/Googlemock since it depends on C++. There are existing frameworks for C, true, but we then need to check that into the Linux kernel or have the kernel depend on that; to me that seemed like a lot more work than just reimplementing what we need, which isn't much. Most of the hard parts are specific to the kernel anyway. > > > A unit test is supposed to test a single unit of code in isolation, > > hence the name. There should be no dependencies outside the control of > > the test; this means no external dependencies, which makes tests orders > > of magnitudes faster. Likewise, since there are no external dependencies, > > there are no hoops to jump through to run the tests. Additionally, this > > makes unit tests deterministic: a failing unit test always indicates a > > problem. Finally, because unit tests necessarily have finer granularity, > > they are able to test all code paths easily solving the classic problem > > of difficulty in exercising error handling code. > > I think it is clearly a trade-off here: Tests run in an isolated, mocked > environment are subject to fewer external components. But the more complex > the mock environment gets, the more likely it also is to be a source of errors, > nondeterminism and capacity limits itself, also the mock code would typically be > less well tested than the mocked parts of the kernel, so it is by no means any > silver bullet, precise testing with a real kernel on real hardware is still > often necessary and desired. I think you are misunderstand me. By isolation, I just mean no code under test should depend on anything outside of the control of the test environment. As I mention above, reusing real code for test dependencies is highly encouraged. As for running against hardware, yes, we need tests for that too, but that falls under integration testing; it is possible to use what I have here as a basis for that, but for right now, I just want to focus on the problem of unit testing: I think this patchset is large enough as it is. > > If the code under test is fairly standalone and complex enough, building a mock > environment for it and test it independently may be worth it, but pragmatically, > if the same functionality can be relatively easily exercised within the kernel, > that would be my first choice. > > I like to think about all sorts of testing and assertion making as adding more > redundancy. When errors surface you can never be sure whether it is a problem > with the test, the test framework, the environment, or an actual error, and > all places have to be fixed before the test can pass. Yep, I totally agree, but this is why I think test isolation is so important. If one test, or one piece of code is running that doesn't need to be, it makes debugging tests that much more complicated. Cheers! _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
