On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:26 AM, Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:35:13PM +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote: >> On arm that doesn't work. The iommu api seems like a good fit, except >> the dma-api tends to get in the way a bit (drm/msm apparently has >> similar problems like tegra), and if you need contiguous memory >> dma_alloc_coherent is the only way to get at contiguous memory. There >> was a huge discussion years ago about that, and direct cma access was >> shot down because it would have exposed too much of the caching >> attribute mangling required (most arm platforms need wc-pages to not >> be in the kernel's linear map apparently). > > I think you completely misunderstand ARM from what you've written above, > and this worries me greatly about giving DRM the level of control that > is being asked for. > > Modern ARMs have a PIPT cache or a non-aliasing VIPT cache, and cache > attributes are stored in the page tables. These caches are inherently > non-aliasing when there are multiple mappings (which is a great step > forward compared to the previous aliasing caches.) > > As the cache attributes are stored in the page tables, this in theory > allows different virtual mappings of the same physical memory to have > different cache attributes. However, there's a problem, and that's > called speculative prefetching. > > Let's say you have one mapping which is cacheable, and another that is > marked as write combining. If a cache line is speculatively prefetched > through the cacheable mapping of this memory, and then you read the > same physical location through the write combining mapping, it is > possible that you could read cached data. > > So, it is generally accepted that all mappings of any particular > physical bit of memory should have the same cache attributes to avoid > unpredictable behaviour. > > This presents a problem with what is generally called "lowmem" where > the memory is mapped in kernel virtual space with cacheable > attributes. It can also happen with highmem if the memory is > kmapped. > > This is why, on ARM, you can't use something like get_free_pages() to > grab some pages from the system, pass it to the GPU, map it into > userspace as write-combining, etc. It _might_ work for some CPUs, > but ARM CPUs vary in how much prefetching they do, and what may work > for one particular CPU is in no way guaranteed to work for another > ARM CPU. > > The official line from architecture folk is to assume that the caches > infinitely speculate, are of infinite size, and can writeback *dirty* > data at any moment. > > The way to stop things like speculative prefetches to particular > physical memory is to, quite "simply", not have any cacheable > mappings of that physical memory anywhere in the system. > > Now, cache flushes on ARM tend to be fairly expensive for GPU buffers. > If you have, say, an 8MB buffer (for a 1080p frame) and you need to > do a cache operation on that buffer, you'll be iterating over it > 32 or maybe 64 bytes at a time "just in case" there's a cache line > present. Referring to my previous email, where I detailed the > potential need for _two_ flushes, one before the GPU operation and > one after, and this becomes _really_ expensive. At that point, you're > probably way better off using write-combine memory where you don't > need to spend CPU cycles performing cache flushing - potentially > across all CPUs in the system if cache operations aren't broadcasted. > > This isn't a simple matter of "just provide some APIs for cache > operations" - there's much more that needs to be understood by > all parties here, especially when we have GPU drivers that can be > used with quite different CPUs. > > It may well be that for some combinations of CPUs and workloads, it's > better to use write-combine memory without cache flushing, but for > other CPUs that tradeoff (for the same workload) could well be > different. > > Older ARMs get more interesting, because they have aliasing caches. > That means the CPU cache aliases across different virtual space > mappings in some way, which complicates (a) the mapping of memory > and (b) handling the cache operations on it. > > It's too late for me to go into that tonight, and I probably won't > be reading mail for the next week and a half, sorry. I didn't know all the details well enough (and neither had the time to write a few paragraphs like you did), but the above is what I had in mind and meant. Sorry if my sloppy reply sounded like I'm mixing stuff up. -Daniel -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation +41 (0) 79 365 57 48 - http://blog.ffwll.ch _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
