On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 02:33:38PM +0000, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: > On 12/12/17 11:19, Tvrtko Ursulin wrote: > > > > On 11/12/2017 21:05, Daniel Vetter wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 02:38:53PM +0000, Tvrtko Ursulin wrote: > > > > On 11/12/2017 10:50, Joonas Lahtinen wrote: > > > > > + Daniel, Chris > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 09:21 +0000, Tvrtko Ursulin wrote: > > > > > > On 04/12/2017 15:02, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After discussion with Chris, Joonas & Tvrtko, this series adds an > > > > > > > additional commit to link the render node back to the card through a > > > > > > > symlink. Making it obvious from an application using > > > > > > > a render node to > > > > > > > know where to get the information it needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Important thing to mention as well is that it is trivial > > > > > > to get from the > > > > > > master drm fd to the sysfs root, via fstat and opendir > > > > > > /sys/dev/char/<major>:<minor>. With the addition of the > > > > > > card symlink to > > > > > > render nodes it is trivial for render node fd as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am happy with this approach - it is extensible, flexible and avoids > > > > > > issues with ioctl versioning or whatnot. With one value > > > > > > per file it is > > > > > > trivial for userspace to access. > > > > > > > > > > > > So for what I'm concerned, given how gputop would use > > > > > > all of this and so > > > > > > be the userspace, if everyone else is happy, I think we could do a > > > > > > detailed review and prehaps also think about including gputop in some > > > > > > distribution to make the case 100% straightforward. > > > > > > > > > > For the GPU topology I agree this is the right choice, it's > > > > > going to be > > > > > about topology after all, and directory tree is the perfect candidate. > > > > > And if a new platform appears, then it's a new platform and may change > > > > > the topology well the hardware topology has changed. > > > > > > > > > > For the engine enumeration, I'm not equally sold for sysfs > > > > > exposing it. > > > > > It's a "linear list of engine instances with flags" how the userspace > > > > > is going to be looking at them. And it's also information > > > > > about what to > > > > > pass to an IOCTL as arguments after decision has been made, and then > > > > > you already have the FD you know you'll be dealing with, at hand. So > > > > > another IOCTL for that seems more convenient. > > > > > > > > Apart from more flexibility and easier to extend, sysfs might be > > > > a better > > > > fit for applications which do not otherwise need a drm fd. Say a > > > > top-like > > > > tool which shows engine utilization, or those patches I RFC-ed recently > > > > which do the same but per DRM client. > > > > > > > > Okay, these stats are now available also via PMU so the argument > > > > is not the > > > > strongest I admit, but I still find it quite neat. It also might > > > > allow us to > > > > define our own policy with regards to needed privilege to access these > > > > stats, and not be governed by the perf API rules. > > > > > > How exactly is sysfs easier to extend than ioctl? There's lots of > > > > Easier as in no need to version, add has_this/has_that markers, try to > > guess today how big a field for something might be needed in the future > > and similar. > > > > > serializing and deserializing going on, ime that's more boilerplate. Imo > > > the only reason for sysfs is when you _must_ access it without having an > > > fd to the gpu. The inverse is generally not true (i.e. using sysfs when > > > you have the fd already), and as soon as you add a writeable field here > > > you're screwed (because sysfs can't be passed to anyone else but root, > > > compared to drm fd - viz the backlight fiasco). > > > > I would perhaps expand the "must access without having a drm fd" to > > "more convenient to access without a drm fd". My use case here was the > > per-client engine usage stats. Equivalence with /proc/<pid>/stat, or > > even /proc/stat if you want. So I was interested in creating a foothold > > in sysfs for that purpose. > > > > No writable fields were imagined in all these two to three use cases. > > > > > But even without writeable fields: Think of highly contained > > > containers/clients which only get the drm fd to render. If sysfs is > > > gone, > > > will they fall on their faces? Atm "drm fd is all you need" is very > > > deeply > > > ingrained into our various OS stacks. > > > > Okay, this is something which was mentioned but I think the answer was > > unclear. If current stacks do work without sysfs then this is a good > > argument to keep that ability. > > > > As I said I am OK to drop the engine info bits from this series. > > Question for Lionel, gpu-top and Mesa then is whether sysfs works for > > them, for the remaining topology information. Attractiveness of sysfs > > there was that it looked easier to be future proof for more or less > > hypothetical future topologies. > > We did a couple of versions with ioctls : > > https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/185959/ (through GET_PARAM) > https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/33436/ (though a new discovery uAPI > initially targeted at the engine discovery) > > Eventually Chris suggested sysfs (which I find kind of convenient), even > though you Daniel raised a valid point with sandboxed processes. > > I personally don't care much in which way this should be implemented. > Just give me some direction :) > > Daniel: Would something in the style of > https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/33436/ work? If yes, what would you > recommend to change? tbh I feel bad derailing this even further, but I think if you want a more flexible query ioctl that's easier to extend we could maybe look at the chunk list approach amdgpu_cs_ioctl uses: All the massive pile of execbuf metadata is supplied in a chunk list, and if you want to extend new stuff, or add a new type, you add a new chunk_id. The chunks themselves are all linearized into one allocation. We could use the exact same trick for output, and require that userspace simply jumps over chunks it doesn't understand. Pronto, you have your insta-extensibility. If you want to go fancy, add a huge flags fields so you can select what kinds of chunks you want (you need the flags field anyways). Querying would be the usual two-step process: 1. ioctl call with chunk_size == 0, to query the kernel how much the kernel should allocate. Kernel would just walk all the available chunks and add up (with a bit of seq_file style abstraction this could look very neat, even when dealing with huge number of chunks). 2. Userspace allocates sufficient amounts of memory for all the chunks it wants, calls the ioctl again, kernel fills them all out into this single one array. Aside: VBT almost works like that (minus the few places they screwed up and you need to know the size of the next block). Cheers, Daniel > > Thanks! > > - > Lionel > > > > > Regards, > > > > Tvrtko > > > > > > > -Daniel > > > > > > > > So I'd say for the GPU topology part, we go forward with the > > > > > review and > > > > > make sure we don't expose driver internal bits that could break when > > > > > refactoring code. If the exposed N bits of information are strictly > > > > > tied to the underlying hardware, we should have no trouble maintaining > > > > > that for the foreseeable future. > > > > > > > > > > Then we can continue on about the engine discovery in parallel, not > > > > > blocking GPU topology discovery. > > > > > > > > I can live with that, but would like to keep the gt/engines/ namespace > > > > reserved for the eventuality with go with engine info in sysfs > > > > at a later > > > > stage then. > > > > > > > > Also, Lionel, did you have plans to use the engine info straight > > > > away in gpu > > > > top, or you only needed topology? I think you were drawing a nice block > > > > diagram of a GPU so do you need it for that? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Tvrtko > > > > > > -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation http://blog.ffwll.ch _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
