Hi Liviu On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 05:42:12PM +0000, Liviu Dudau wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 06:08:42PM +0100, Daniel Vetter wrote: > > We've discussed this a bit at LCA (with Dave and Eric), and it's > > probably best if I just summarize all the questions and opens and > > throw them out here for discussions: > > > > - When's a driver small enough for a shared tree, and when is a > > separate tree a good idea? i915 and amdgpu are definitely big, and > > there's definitely drivers who are really small and in-between it's > > unclear. Personally I think this is easy to do with a sliding scale, > > with using topic branches (we can do them in drm-misc easily) for > > bigger stuff, and if that's a common thing, split out the driver > > (thanks to the drm-tip integration tree there's not much of a > > difference in handling conflicts due to that anyway). > > IMO the criteria should be based on the number of people involved in > each driver that have commit rights. The size of the driver should not > matter. There can be only one person working on a large and established > code base and be easy to handle with a topic branch in drm-misc, while > having a small (because it is new) driver that 3-5 people can all commit > into leads to a different dynamic. I'm interested on what are your (and > others) thoughts on the process for this. Hm, good point. Otoh we have 15 committers (and a lot more people) working on i915 in one tree, so a pile of people in one place isn't all that much of a reason to split it out I think. And drm-misc is still rather small, so 3-5 folks here and there won't matter. For a new driver the topic branch would just be the initial pull request I think, assuming that afterwards the patch rate goes down a lot. If it keeps high (10+ patches per week or so), then better to have a separate tree from the start imo. I think patch rate is probably the best measure for whether a driver is small or big, not code size and maybe also not team size (since even if there's a bunch of people there's a big difference between dedicated to upstream or also absorbed with product and customer support). > > - Should it be an entire separate tree for soc drivers? Problem here > > is that we lack a volunteer group (and imo it really should be a group > > to avoid the single-maintainer troubles) to run that. I think it's > > easier to proof the process first, and if we want a separate tree, > > split that out later on. This is the same thing we've done with > > drm-misc, first with a topic branch in drm-intel.git, then separate. I > > think it worked really well. > > Hmm, are we mixing here GPU drivers with display ones, like we do on > the #dri-devel IRC channel? Because different people are going to have > different interests (obviously). Yup, this is for the drm subsystem overall. For process issues like these, why would display be different from rendering? > > - Should we require review or at least acks for patches committed by > > the author? We have a bunch of drivers with effectively just 1 person > > working on it, where getting real review is hard. But otoh a few of > > those 1-person drivers will become popular, and then it's good to > > start with establishing peer-review early on. I also think that > > requiring peer-review is good to share best practices and knowledge > > between different people in our community, not just to make sure the > > code is correct. For all these reasons I'm leaning towards not making > > an exception for drivers, and requiring the same amount of review for > > them if they go in through drm-misc as for any other patch. > > I think it depends on the responsiveness of that driver maintainer. IF > we are happy with people making mistakes and fixing them quickly, then > we can be more lax on the review. I would personally like (or expect) > that at least the people sending pull request for drm-misc that includes > that driver do a quick review of the code because they know it is only > one person working on it. The point here is to train maintainers on peer-reviewing their own stuff, instead of getting way to used with just being able to do whatever they want. So process, not code quality. In short, it's all about the topics I raised in my lca talk and establishing group maintainership models as the norm. Link: http://blog.ffwll.ch/2017/01/maintainers-dont-scale.html > > - Who's elligible? I think we could start small with a few volunteers > > and their drivers, and then anyone who's willing. > > I am not volunteering not excusing me from this, I would like more details > on the process before making a decision. Current drm-misc process documentation: https://01.org/linuxgraphics/gfx-docs/maintainer-tools/drm-misc.html > > - Should we force new submissions to be managed in that shared treee? > > I think for initial submission a separate pull request for > > approval-by-Dave is good (but we could do that with topic branches > > too). And it's also way too early to tell, probably better to first > > figure out how well this goes. > > > > - CI, needed? It would be great, but we're not there yet :( Atm > > drm-misc just has a bunch of defconfigs that need to always compile, > > and that's it. Long term I definitely want more, but we're just not > > there yet. And it's a problem in general for drm-misc. > > +1 > > > > > - dim scripts. Since we don't have a github flow where we can > > reasonably automate stuff on the server side we need something to > > automate on the client side. Thus far almost everyone seemed ok with > > the scripting that's used to drive drm-misc/intel/tip, but we can > > always improve things. And long term we can rework the approach > > however we want to really. > > Can you be more specific on who "everyone" is? I haven't used any of the > scripts from drm-misc/intel/tip. The tooling also has docs: https://01.org/linuxgraphics/gfx-docs/maintainer-tools/dim.html > > - Other stuff I've missed? > > Suggestions on how we address the ordering of pulls? If we depend in a > drivers in drm-misc on a change making it into Dave's tree, how will that > work? This really is about drivers where having a separate tree/branch doesn't make much sense because they're really small, and separate trees/branches cause more coordination overhead. Note that "small" is rather relative, currently we're pushing through 50 patches per week in drm-intel-next and it all works well, and drm-misc is a lot smaller than that still so could accomodate a _lot_ of the smaller drivers we have easily. Question is whether it makes sense. Otherwise it's the same as with any other cross-tree issue: Either topic branch, or backmerge once drm-misc has flown to Dave's tree. Cheers, Daniel -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation http://blog.ffwll.ch _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel
