Hi Vinod and Peter, On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 09:36:09PM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote: > On 03-06-20, 13:51, Peter Ujfalusi wrote: > > On 01/06/2020 14.49, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 01, 2020 at 02:14:03PM +0300, Peter Ujfalusi wrote: > > >> On 28/05/2020 5.10, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > > >>>>> As mentioned in the commit message, I plan to extend that, I just didn't > > >>>>> want to add the checks to all the prepare operation wrappers until an > > >>>>> agreement on the approach would be reached. I also thought it would be > > >>>>> good to not allow this API for other transaction types until use cases > > >>>>> arise, in order to force upstream discussions instead of silently > > >>>>> abusing the API :-) > > >>>> > > >>>> I would not object if slave_sg and memcpy got the same treatment. If the > > >>>> DMA driver did not set the DMA_REPEAT then clients can not use this > > >>>> feature anyways. > > >>> > > >>> Would you not object, or would you prefer if it was done in v5 ? :-) > > >> > > >> DMA_REPEAT is a generic flag, not limited to only interleaved, but you > > >> are going to be the first user of it with interleaved. > > >> > > >>> Overall I think that enabling APIs that have no user isn't necessarily > > >>> the best idea, as it's prone to design issues, but I don't mind doing so > > >>> if you think it needs to be done now. > > >> > > >> We would get the support in one go with the same commit. I don't think > > >> it makes much sense to add slave_sg later, then memcpy another time. > > >> True, there might be no users for them for some time, but their presents > > >> might invite users? > > > > > > My approach to API design is that an API designed without (at least) one > > > user is very prone to be a bad API. As I said before I don't mind > > > enabling support for slave_sg and memcpy today already, even if I don't > > > think it's a good idea. I want to get my use case supported, and I've > > > given up on what I would consider a good API :-) That's fine, > > > maintainers are the ones who have to support APIs and the design choices > > > behind them in the longer term, and I'm not a subsystem maintainer here. > > > I tried to prevent what I think may become a case of shooting in the > > > foot, but I could be wrong. Only the future will tell. > > > > Yes, we will see in the longer run. > > I am not sure I would like to add an API without a user, we can add some > notes in documentation for this and future ideas on how to add this, but > an API without user doesn't sound right to me. That's my preference as well. Peter, are you OK with that ? > > >>>>> I can extend the flag to all other transaction types > > >>>>> (except for the cyclic transaction, as it doesn't make sense there). > > >>>> > > >>>> Yep, cyclic is a different type of transfer, it is for circular buffers. > > >>>> It could be seen as a special case of slave_sg. Some drivers actually > > >>>> create temporary sg_list in case of cyclic and use the same setup > > >>>> function to set up the transfer for slave_sg/cyclic... > > >>> > > >>> Cyclic is different for historical reasons, but if I had to redesign it > > >>> today, I'd make it slave_sg + DMA_PREP_REPEAT. We obviously can't, and I > > >>> have no issue with that. > > >> > > >> Which should be accompanied with a flag to tell that the sg_list is > > >> covering a circular buffer to save all drivers to check the sg_list that > > >> it is circular buffer (current cyclic) or really sg. > > >> Some DMA can only do repeat on circular buffers (omap-dma, tegra, etc). > > > > > > Isn't DMA_PREP_REPEAT that flag ? > > > > Not really. It tells that the descriptor should be repeated. In case of > > slave_sg the list could describe one block of memory, split up to > > 'periods' or it could be a list scattered chunks all over the place. > > > > circular buffer can be described with sg_list. > > sg_list is not necessary describes a circular buffer. > > > > >>>> But, DMA drivers might support neither of them, either of them or both. > > >>>> It is up to the client to pick the preferred method for it's use. > > >>>> It is not far fetched that the next DMA the client is going to be > > >>>> serviced will have different capabilities and the client needs to handle > > >>>> EOT or NOW or it might even need to have fallback to case when neither > > >>>> is supported. > > >>>> > > >>>> I don't like excessive flags either, but based on my experience > > >>>> under-flagging can bite back sooner than later. > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm aware that at the moment it feels like it is too explicit, but never > > >>>> underestimate the creativity of the design - and in some cases the > > >>>> constraint the design must fulfill. > > >>> > > >>> I'm still very puzzled by why you think adding DMA_PREP_LOAD_EOT now is > > >>> a good idea, given that there's no existing and no foreseen use case for > > >>> not setting it. Creating an API element that is completely disconnected > > >>> from any known use case doesn't seem like good API design to me, > > >>> especially for an in-kernel API. > > >> > > >> If we document that DMA_REPEAT covers REPEAT _and_ LOAD_EOT with one > > >> flag then how would other drivers can implement REPEAT if they can not > > >> support LOAD_EOT? > > >> They should do DMA_REPEAT | NOT_LOAD_EOT | LOAD_ASAP? > > > > > > As stated before, I think a DMA_LOAD_EOT capability is useful. My > > > concern is about DMA_PREP_LOAD_EOT for which I can't see use cases. I've > > > added DMA_PREP_LOAD_EOT in the last patch series, and my DMA engine > > > driver ignores the transaction when DMA_PREP_LOAD_EOT is not set, as > > > required. It works fine as the my client always sets it. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > I'd expect Vinod or you to write the documentation though, as writing > > > code for an API I don't believe in is one thing, writing documentation > > > to explain the rationale behind the API design will be more complex > > > > Vinod can correct me, but for the capabilities: > > DMA_REPEAT: the controller (and driver) supports repeating the > > descriptor. It can be terminated with terminate_all > > DMA_LOAD_EOT: the controller (and driver) supports loading the next > > issued transfer on a channel which is running DMA_REPEAT > > descriptor. Iow, instead of reloading the running transfer, it > > moves to the next one. > > DMA_LOAD_NOW: the controller (and driver) supports aborting the > > active descriptor (either DMA_REPEAT or non repeated one) and > > moving to the next issued transfer without clients needing to > > use terminate_all. > > Sounds right to me. For the same reason as above, my latest patch series doesn't include DMA_LOAD_NOW, as that would be an API with no user. Vinod, is that OK with you ? > > > when I don't believe there's any rationale :-) > > > > Sure, you have a specific DMA, which does one thing and one thing only. > > When a subsystem decides to create a generic DMA layer on top of > > DMAengine for example to get rid of the duplicated code in the drivers > > then this generic code does need information to decide how the servicing > > DMA should be used for optimal performance and quality. > > Some DMAs (and drivers) might have slightly different capabilities. > > > > >> LOAD_EOT is a feature the HW can or can not support and it is an > > >> operation mode that you want to use or do not want to use. > > > > > > DMA_PREP_REPEAT for the EOT mode, DRM_PREP_REPEAT | DMA_PREP_LOAD_NOW > > > for the immediate mode would work too, and wouldn't have the drawback of > > > artificially creating a case (!EOT && !NOW) that would fail. > > > > But if a DMA does not support LOAD_EOT at all? If it did not support > > LOAD_NOW either? If the driver doesn't support EOT, then REPEAT without EOT would be rejected by the prepare operation. If the driver doesn't support EOT not NOW, then it wouldn't support REPEAT :-) In any case, both EOT and NOW would be rejected, and so would REPEAT (REPEAT without EOT or NOW doesn't make much sense). > > But if anything the LOAD_NOW sounds more of a default expectation than > > LOAD_EOT. > > Yes, I know. The display use case needs LOAD_EOT to avoid artifacts on > > screen, but DMA_REPEAT is not only for displays. > > Correct, a user can request LOAD_NOW or LOAD_EOT, driver should be able > to handle (as long as h/w supports) and act accordingly. > > Dmaengine layer and drivers and not specific to one interface or one > user, the idea is to write generic dmaengine driver catering to > different users, so supporting different flags from driver pov as well > dmaengine framework pov is required. Let's skip the lectures on API design, I think we're way past that point. Could you please review the latest patch series (https://lore.kernel.org/dmaengine/20200528025228.31638-1-laurent.pinchart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/T/#t) ? -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart
