Hi Rob, On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 08:09, Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 20:37, Rob Herring <robh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 9:39 AM Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 02:51, Mark Kettenis <mark.kettenis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 16:44:41 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:26, Rob Herring <robh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 11:33 AM Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2021 at 09:05, Rob Herring <robh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:41 AM Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 13:30, Rob Herring <robh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 12:51:53PM -0600, Simon Glass wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > U-Boot makes use of the devicetree for its driver model. Devices are bound > > > > > > > > > > > based on the hardware description in the devicetree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since U-Boot is not an operating system, it has no command line or user > > > > > > > > > > > space to provide configuration and policy information. This must be made > > > > > > > > > > > available in some other way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore U-Boot uses devicetree for configuration and run-time control > > > > > > > > > > > and has done for approximately 9 years. This works extremely well in the > > > > > > > > > > > project and is very flexible. However the bindings have never been > > > > > > > > > > > incorporated in the devicetree bindings in the Linux tree. This could be > > > > > > > > > > > a good time to start this work as we try to create standard bindings for > > > > > > > > > > > communicating between firmware components. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add an initial binding for this node, covering just the config node, which > > > > > > > > > > > is the main requirement. It is similar in concept to the chosen node, but > > > > > > > > > > > used for passing information between firmware components, instead of from > > > > > > > > > > > firmware to operating system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > Please be kind in your review. Some words about why this is needed are > > > > > > > > > > > included in the description in config.yaml file. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last attempt to add just one property needed by U-Boot went into the > > > > > > > > > > > weeds 6 years ago, with what I see as confusion about the role of the > > > > > > > > > > > chosen node in devicetree[1]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying again in the hope of reaching resolution rather than just > > > > > > > > > > > going around in circles with the 'devicetree is a hardware description' > > > > > > > > > > > argument :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting from the introduction to latest devicetree spec[2]: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > To initialize and boot a computer system, various software components > > > > > > > > > > > interact. Firmware might perform low-level initialization of the system > > > > > > > > > > > hardware before passing control to software such as an operating system, > > > > > > > > > > > bootloader, or hypervisor. Bootloaders and hypervisors can, in turn, > > > > > > > > > > > load and transfer control to operating systems. Standard, consistent > > > > > > > > > > > interfaces and conventions facilitate the interactions between these > > > > > > > > > > > software components. In this document the term boot program is used to > > > > > > > > > > > generically refer to a software component that initializes the system > > > > > > > > > > > state and executes another software component referred to as a client > > > > > > > > > > > program. > > > > > > > > > > > <<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This clearly envisages multiple software components in the firmware > > > > > > > > > > > domain and in fact that is the case today. They need some way to > > > > > > > > > > > communicate configuration data such as memory setup, runtime-feature > > > > > > > > > > > selection and developer conveniences. Devicetree seems ideal, at least for > > > > > > > > > > > components where the performance / memory requirements of devicetree are > > > > > > > > > > > affordable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope that the Linux community (which owns the devicetree bindings) finds > > > > > > > > > > > this initiative valuable and acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owns? I'm having a sale and can make you a good offer. Buy 1 binding, > > > > > > > > > > get 2000 free. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it's the price of that first binding that surely puts everyone off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (sorry for sitting on this for a week, my spam filter doesn't like > > > > > > > > > some mailing lists and I'm working on it) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2015-July/218585.html > > > > > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/devicetree-org/devicetree-specification/releases/tag/v0.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .../devicetree/bindings/u-boot/config.yaml | 137 ++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > > > > > 1 file changed, 137 insertions(+) > > > > > > > > > > > create mode 100644 Documentation/devicetree/bindings/u-boot/config.yaml > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Might as well put this into dt-schema rather than the kernel. But might > > > > > > > > > > get more review here first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, so does that mean a PR to https://github.com/robherring/dt-schema > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wrong one: https://github.com/devicetree-org/dt-schema > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need to update the readme there for the old one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or is there a mailing list for it? I think I am missing some > > > > > > > > > understanding here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can send a PR or to a DT mailing list, but the mail list will get > > > > > > > > more reviews (hopefully). devicetree-spec is better than devicetree as > > > > > > > > it is not a firehose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/u-boot/config.yaml b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/u-boot/config.yaml > > > > > > > > > > > new file mode 100644 > > > > > > > > > > > index 00000000000000..336577a17fdf5a > > > > > > > > > > > --- /dev/null > > > > > > > > > > > +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/u-boot/config.yaml > > > > > > > > > > > @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ > > > > > > > > > > > +# SPDX-License-Identifier: (GPL-2.0 OR BSD-2-Clause) > > > > > > > > > > > +%YAML 1.2 > > > > > > > > > > > +--- > > > > > > > > > > > +$id: http://devicetree.org/schemas/u-boot/config.yaml# > > > > > > > > > > > +$schema: http://devicetree.org/meta-schemas/core.yaml# > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > +title: U-Boot configuration node > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > +maintainers: > > > > > > > > > > > + - Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > +description: | > > > > > > > > > > > + The config node does not represent a real device, but serves as a place > > > > > > > > > > > + for passing data between firmware elements, like memory maps. Data in the > > > > > > > > > > > + config node does not represent the hardware. It is ignored by operating > > > > > > > > > > > + systems. > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + Purpose of config node > > > > > > > > > > > + ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + A common problem with firmware is that many builds are needed to deal with the > > > > > > > > > > > + slight variations between different, related models. For example, one model > > > > > > > > > > > + may have a TPM and another may not. Devicetree provides an excellent solution > > > > > > > > > > > + to this problem, in that the devicetree to actually use on a platform can be > > > > > > > > > > > + injected in the factory based on which model is being manufactured at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + A related problem causing build proliferation is dealing with the differences > > > > > > > > > > > + between development firmware, developer-friendly firmware (e.g. with all > > > > > > > > > > > + security features present but with the ability to access the command line), > > > > > > > > > > > + test firmware (which runs tests used in the factory), final production > > > > > > > > > > > + firmware (before signing), signed firmware (where the signatures have been > > > > > > > > > > > + inserted) and the like. Ideally all or most of these should use the same > > > > > > > > > > > + U-Boot build, with just some options to determine the features available. For > > > > > > > > > > > + example, being able to control whether the UART console or JTAG are available, > > > > > > > > > > > + on any image, is a great debugging aid. > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + When the firmware consists of multiple parts (various U-Boot phases, TF-A, > > > > > > > > > > > + OP-TEE), it is helpful that all operate the same way at runtime, regardless of > > > > > > > > > > > + how they were built. This can be achieved by passing the runtime configuration > > > > > > > > > > > + (e.g. 'enable UART console', 'here are your public keys') along the chain > > > > > > > > > > > + through each firmware stage. It is frustrating to have to replicate a bug on > > > > > > > > > > > + production firmware which does happen on developer firmware, because they are > > > > > > > > > > > + completely different builds. > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + The config node provides useful functionality for this. It allows the different > > > > > > > > > > > + controls to be 'factored out' of the U-Boot binary, so they can be controlled > > > > > > > > > > > + separately from the initial source-code build. The node can be easily updated > > > > > > > > > > > + by a build or factory tool and can control various features in U-Boot. It is > > > > > > > > > > > + similar in concept to a Kconfig option, except that it can be changed after > > > > > > > > > > > + U-Boot is built. > > > > > > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > > > > + The config node is similar in concept to /chosen (see chosen.txt) except that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chosen.yaml now (in dt-schema). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > + it is for passing information *into* and *between) firmware components, > > > > > > > > > > > + instead of from firmware to the Operating System. Also, while operating > > > > > > > > > > > + systems typically have a (sometimes extremely long) command line, U-Boot does > > > > > > > > > > > + not support this, except with sandbox. The devicetree provides a more > > > > > > > > > > > + structured approach in any case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about having a /chosen/u-boot/ node instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is your rationale for doing that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simply that /chosen is where the s/w configuration for the next stage > > > > > > > > consuming the DT goes. Also, we already have bootcmd defined in chosen > > > > > > > > and don't need it in a whole other place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK I see. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The spec says "The /chosen node does not represent a real device in > > > > > > > the system but describes parameters chosen or specified by the system > > > > > > > firmware at run time. It shall be a child of the root node." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my reading, this is not the same thing. I would prefer something like: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The /xxx node does not represent a real device in the system but > > > > > > > describes parameters used by the system firmware at run time. It shall > > > > > > > be a child of the root node." > > > > > > > > > > > > The wording is from simpler times... We can reword it however we need. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, as is the /chosen node, I think. So perhaps we should be able to > > > > > expand to other nodes as needed! > > > > > > > > Maybe, but it we probably should follow existing practice. > > > > > > > > The whole DT thing came out of OpenFirmware. The OpenFirmware > > > > standard defines a /options node with various options that control how > > > > the firmware behaves. It is defined in the IEEE 1275 standard: > > > > > > > > https://www.openfirmware.info/data/docs/of1275.pdf > > > > > > > > The way this behaves on Sun and (PowerPC) machines is quite similar > > > > how environment variables work in U-Boot. > > > > > > I don't see much semantic difference between choices and options, but > > > I would be quite happy to use 'options' for firmware. In fact it seems > > > that 'options' serves the same purpose as the 'config' node I had in > > > mind. We still need to have subnodes for project-specific things > > > though. > > > > /options with child node per component is fine with me. There's > > nothing in the way of established or documented usage that I have > > found. Some old DTs I have have /options but none of it looks like > > anything we'd care about. > > OK I will respin this along those lines, keeping the scope otherwise > the same. There are also pointers in this thread to how we might > handle standardising things across multiple firmware components, so > that is something I will keep in mind also. In case you didn't see it, I sent a PR: https://github.com/devicetree-org/dt-schema/pull/62 Regards, Simon
