Hi Marc,
thank you very much for your feedback, actually that is what I am looking for (Design advices and feedback). I also wanted to get in touch with the community because right now I am on my own with this project with no experience at all. But I also wanted to get into it first and learn the basics and setup a system before bothering other people with it and to be able to even hold a conversation about it.
So we are a 3D Content Production Company with around 10-12 Workstations and 6 Render stations. We work with software like Autodesk Maya or Adobe After effects. All our Projects are stored on the NAS and we work directly with those files on the NAS.
This is our current System:
Synology RS4017xs+
Intel Xeon D-1541 2,1 Ghz, 8 Cores
32GB Ram
16x 8TB WD Red Drives
2 TB SSD Cache
2 x 10 Gb SFP+ Nics
About the Bcache I just did tests with it as I found the idea very interesting and also performance was better. If this project is ever getting into real-life production I will stick to the most common setups for sure.
Here are some Results of Diskmark on one Computer. (I Had only 5 OSDs per Node up and running at this test because I am still waiting for the new Seagate drives) For Sequential Reads and Writes I sometimes maxed out the 10Gbe host connection so the data is not very useful but the other numbers are quite interesting:
For Comparison:
Hosts Local NVME Drive (Samsung 970 EVO Pro 1TB):
Read: Write:
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 3507.700 MB/s [ 3345.2 IOPS] < 2389.61 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 2548.063 MB/s [ 2430.0 IOPS] < 3284.79 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 2368.308 MB/s [ 2258.6 IOPS] < 442.07 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 2456.471 MB/s [ 2342.7 IOPS] < 426.10 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 1555.565 MB/s [ 379776.6 IOPS] < 1312.45 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 16.580 MB/s [ 4047.9 IOPS] <124267.88 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 51.666 MB/s [ 12613.8 IOPS] < 78.82 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 108.983 MB/s [ 26607.2 IOPS] < 37.13 us>
Current Synology NAS (SMB):
Read: Write:
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 1045.594 MB/s [ 997.2 IOPS] < 7990.33 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 1101.007 MB/s [ 1050.0 IOPS] < 7588.25 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 953.709 MB/s [ 909.5 IOPS] < 1098.57 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 847.847 MB/s [ 808.6 IOPS] < 1235.26 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 4.198 MB/s [ 1024.9 IOPS] <380158.65 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 188.827 MB/s [ 46100.3 IOPS] < 11076.14 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 2.486 MB/s [ 606.9 IOPS] < 1637.08 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 7.177 MB/s [ 1752.2 IOPS] < 570.16 us>
Ceph With WAL/DB on NVME total of 5 old SATA HDD OSDs (SMB):
Read: Write:
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 534.050 MB/s [ 509.3 IOPS] < 15628.63 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 198.420 MB/s [ 189.2 IOPS] < 42020.67 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 340.580 MB/s [ 324.8 IOPS] < 2921.17 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 184.329 MB/s [ 175.8 IOPS] < 5603.99 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 3.172 MB/s [ 774.4 IOPS] <398622.73 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 8.639 MB/s [ 2109.1 IOPS] <222699.43 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 1.907 MB/s [ 465.6 IOPS] < 2139.08 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 7.294 MB/s [ 1780.8 IOPS] < 560.91 us>
Ceph With Bcache total of 5 old SATA HDD OSDs (SMB):
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 967.386 MB/s [ 922.6 IOPS] < 8660.59 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 8, T= 1): 882.882 MB/s [ 842.0 IOPS] < 9444.23 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 418.157 MB/s [ 398.8 IOPS] < 2448.00 us> Sequential 1MiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 793.417 MB/s [ 756.7 IOPS] < 1320.37 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 39.756 MB/s [ 9706.1 IOPS] < 51788.10 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16): 128.303 MB/s [ 31324.0 IOPS] < 16298.94 us>
Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 29.527 MB/s [ 7208.7 IOPS] < 138.36 us> Random 4KiB (Q= 1, T= 1): 32.334 MB/s [ 7894.0 IOPS] < 126.25 us>
I will do an Update as soon as I have all the 18 OSDs running.
I could also need some advice on how to do proper testing.
__________________________________
EventArt GmbH
Kirchenstraße 13,
3243 St. Leonhard am Forst
mobile: +43(0)6641951196
mail: office@xxxxxxxxxxx
UID: ATU 64417269
http://www.eventart.at II http://www.clamlive.at
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Marc Roos <M.Roos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Mai 2020 14:33
An: ceph-users <ceph-users@xxxxxxx>; Moritz Wilhelm <moritz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff: RE: Ceph as a Fileserver for 3D Content Production
I was just reading your post, and started wondering why you posted it. I do not see clear question, and you also do not share test results (from your nas vs cephfs smb). So maybe you like some attention in this covid social distancing time? ;)
Anyway, I have been 'testing' with ceph for 2,5 years or so. (I am telling you so, you know how to value my info) If you start playing with ceph keep it simple and stick to what is recommended. Do not start looking for unconventional ways making ceph faster, because you are not able to do it better than the developers. You do not know the ins and outs, and you are more likely to shoot yourself in the foot. At least ask first. Eg this bcache, I am not 100% sure what it is, but if it is sitting between the osd process and the disk, it could be getting nasty with a reset/power outage, when ceph thinks data is written to disk, while it is not.
I would start by identifying what your minimum performance requirements are, maybe post them, and ask if someone has realized them with a ceph setup.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 17 May 2020 13:42
To: ceph-users@xxxxxxx
Subject: Ceph as a Fileserver for 3D Content Production
Hi,
my Name is Moritz and I am working for a 3D production company. Because of the corona virus I have too much time left and also to much unused hardware. That is why I started playing around with Ceph as a fileserver for us. Here I want to share my experience for all those who are interested. To start of here is my actual running test system. I am interested in the thoughts of the community and also on more suggestions on what to try out with my available Hardware. I don’t know how to test it right now because I am a newbie to ceph and our production file server is a super user-friendly but high performance Synology NAS 😉.
All I have done so far was running Crystal disk benchmark on 1 Windows machine on the SMB Share.
3 Nodes: (original those where render workstations that are not in use right now)
Each Node is MON MGM OSD
Mainboard: ASRock TRX40 Creator
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X, 24 Cores, 3.8Ghz
RAM: 2 x Samsung 32 GB 2 x 8 DDR4 2666 MHz 288-pin DIMM, Unregistered, ECC (64 GB Total) NIC Public: OnBoard Aquantia 107, 10Gbit NIC Ceph:
Intel XXV710-DA2, 2x SFP28, 25Gbit System Drive: 2x Samsung SSD 860 PRO 256GB, SATA, ZFS Raid 1
System: Proxmox VE 6.2, Debian Buster, Ceph Nautilus
HBA: Broadcom SAS 9305-16i
OSDs:
6x Seagate Exos, 16TB, 7.200 rpm, 12Gb SAS
Cache:
1x Micron 9300 MAX 3.2TB U.2 NVME
I Played around with setting it up as a WAL/DB Device. Right now I have configured the Micron NVME as a BCache Infront of the 6 Seagate Drives in writeback mode.
Because in this configuration BCache takes care of translating random writes to sequential ones for the HDDs I turned the Ceph WAL LOG off. I think Bcache gives more options to tune the System for my use case instead of just putting WAL/DB on the NVME. And also I can easily add cache drives or remove them without touching osds.
I set up SMB Shares with the vfs_ceph module. I still have to add CTDB to distribute Samba to all nodes.
My Next steps are to keep playing around in tuning the system and testing stability and performance. After that I want to put the Ceph cluster infront of our production NAS. Because our data is not super critical I thought of setting the replicas to 2 and running Rsync overnight to our NAS. That way I can switch to the old NAS at any time and wouldn’t loose more than 1 Day of work which is acceptable for us.
This is how I could compare the two solutions side by side with real-life workload.
I know that ceph might not be the best solution right now but if I am able to get at least similar performance to our Synology HDD NAS out of it, it would give a super scalable Solution in size and performance to grow with our needs. And who knows what performance improvements we get with ceph in the next 3 years.
I am happy to hear your thoughts and ideas. And please I know this might be kind of a crazy setup but I have fun with it and I learned a lot the last few weeks. If my experiment fails I will go back to my original
plan: Put FreeNas on two of the Nodes with overnight replication and put the third Node back to his render-friends. 😃
By the way I also have a spare Dell Server: 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3 2,40GHz, 128G Ram. I just don’t have an idea on how to utilize it. Maybe as extra OSD Node or as a separate Samba Server to get the SMB traffic away from the Public Ceph Network.
Moritz Wilhelm
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