Gregory Farnum wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Daniel Hofmann <daniel@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Preamble: you might want to read the decent formatted version of this >> mail at: >>> https://gist.github.com/daniel-j-h/2daae2237bb21596c97d <snip aggressively> >> ------- >> >> Ceph's object mapping depends on the rjenkins hash function. >> It's possible to force Ceph into mapping all objects to a single PG. >> >> Please discuss! > > Yes, this is an attack vector. It functions against...well, any system > using hash-based placement. Sort of. How well it functions is a function (heh) of how easy it is to find a preimage against the hash (collision only allows a pair, you need preimages to get beyond that). With fletcher4, preimages aren't particularly difficult to find. By using a more robust hash[1], then preimages become more computationally expensive since you need to brute-force for each value rather than taking advantage of a weakness in the algorithm. This doesn't buy a huge amount since the bruteforce effort per iteration is still bounded by the number of PGs, but it does help - and it means that as PGs are split, resistance to the attack increases as well. > RGW mangles names on its own, although the mangling is deterministic > enough that an attacker could perhaps manipulate it into mangling them > onto the same PG. (Within the constraints, though, it'd be pretty > difficult.) > RBD names objects in a way that users can't really control, so I guess > it's safe, sort of? (But users of rbd will still have write permission > to some class of objects in which they may be able to find an attack.) > > The real issue though, is that any user with permission to write to > *any* set of objects directly in the cluster will be able to exploit > this regardless of what barriers we erect. Deterministic placement, in > that anybody directly accessing the cluster can compute data > locations, is central to Ceph's design. We could add "salts" or > something to try and prevent attackers from *outside* the direct set > (eg, users of RGW) exploiting it directly, but anybody who can read or > write from the cluster would need to be able to read the salt in order > to compute locations themselves. Actually, doing (say) per-pool salts does help in a notable way: even someone who can write to two pools can't reuse the computation of colliding values across pools. It forces them to expend the work factor for each pool they attack, rather than being able to amortize. > So I'm pretty sure this attack vector > is: > 1) Inherent to all hash-placement systems, > 2) not something we can reasonably defend against *anyway*. I'd agree that in the absolute sense it's inherent and insoluble, but that doesn't imply that _mitigations_ are worthless. A more drastic option would be to look at how the sfq network scheduler handles it - it hashes flows onto a fixed number of queues, and gets around collisions by periodically perturbing the salt (resulting in a _stochastic_ avoidance of clumping). It'd definitely require some research to find a way to do this such that it doesn't cause huge data movement, but it might be worth thinking about for the longer term. [1] I'm thinking along the lines of SipHash, not any heavy-weight cryptographic hash; however with network latencies on the table those might not be too bad regardless -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe ceph-devel" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
