> On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:53 AM, Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On 1/5/21 6:30 PM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>> I was not comparing CentOS Stream with CentOS (former 10 year life cycle system), I was comparing CentOS Stream with Debian (and clones) LTS.
>
>
> The original message came from a CentOS user who asked "is the change a non-issue for my use-case?"
>
> So, I'd have to ask you how Debian is relevant to that question.
>
> As I said, in terms of upgrade from one major version to another, CentOS Stream and CentOS are identical.
Yes, my apologies, I did miss the word “Stream” in my phrase (no excuse even though I obviously spoke about NEW type of CentOS system).
> If CentOS was suitable, then the change to CentOS Stream is a non-issue in the context of major version upgrades, because the change to CentOS Stream has no material impact on that concern.
>
Yes, indeed, if CentOS Stream is identical to CentOS as far as “in place upgrade” is concerned, which is not possible in case of both CentOS incarnations, then the comparison to other systems with comparable 5 year life cycle insists to be mentioned.
This only comes as I do care about CentOS at least recognizing benefits we had (I for one for about decade and a half). So, caring about CentOS, one imminently has to mention:
1. 5 year life cycle (of Stream): unique 10 year life cycle (not mentioning MS Windows which is commercial) is gone
2. same life cycle Debian and clones (LTS): have easy in place upgrade. Not Stream (as far as I know). If it will be, then only 2 releases down the road people will trust in place upgrade (pure psychology)
3. [continuing comparison with similar LTS alternatives]: Debian and clones have much larger package collections than CentOS + EPEL (and so do FreeBSD and clones: meaning their ports)
4. By the moment people will know CentOS Stream exists for decently long time, so can be trusted, quite some userbase will be lost. But looking at the comparisons above, there also is no obvious advantage over alternatives, who beat CentOS Stream in several respects.
This is not to annoy anyone, just to express sadness of the loss, and though for me it was like stating obvious, it still looks like not everyone considers it that obvious. If I didn’t care [what I run on my machines], then I wouldn’t care to write this. But as I do… there it is.
> The question being asked is not "what operating system should I use", to which discussion of Debian or FreeBSD might be relevant, it's "will the change to CentOS Stream impact my current processes?" Comparisons to Debian or FreeBSD are non-sequiturs in the context of this conversation.
>
Well, in my book whenever one is trying to access future usability of something newly changed, it is always advantageous to step up above it, look at a wider picture and other possibilities. Not locking oneself into what one used (but changed forcing you to re-evaluate). I know, the existence of alternatives annoys, and it really hurts when they have advantages, especially once the advantage CentOS had (10 year life cycle) is gone…
And again, GREAT THANKS to brilliant CentOS team for great work you did for last couple of decades. With sadness of the loss (even if CentOS team does not perceive it as loss),
Valeri
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