My name is Dan Kohn, and I'm the COO of the Linux Foundation. I'm going to be representing the LF in our work with the Carrier Grade Linux (CGL) workgroup and (if they are willing to collaborate with us) with SCOPE. First, I'd like to apologize for the extreme tardiness of this email. I actually wrote a draft a month ago, but got sidetracked by LF integration issues, and was not able to focus on the actual work that the LF is aiming to support getting done. I've carefully reviewed the lf_carrier posts for the month, and to address the issues raised there, I hope you'll excuse it if I now switch to a Q&A format for the remainder of the message. Q. Does the LF care about CGL or is it letting it "wither on the vine"? A. Yes, we want to improve Linux to better meet telecom customer needs and to help win sales for network and telecom equipment vendors, distros, and system companies. Serving as a neutral collaboration forum and helping shape consensus on critical issues are both core parts of the LF's mission. That doesn't mean that all LF members agree with everything CGL has done or published in the past, but I can assure you that the LF wants CGL to continue, that you can count on me as your contact point for working with the LF, and that we are willing to dedicate resources for CGL's success. Q. Aren't you just going to force everything to be part of the Linux Standard Base (LSB)? Aren't you shutting down former OSDL workgroups so that the LF is just a renamed Free Standards Group? No, although I think Jim Zemlin and I are responsible for this misunderstanding based on some of our comments that were taken out of context. In short, we do think some things that CGL wants to see in carrier-grade Linux could best be implemented as LSB modules. However, there's lots of other work that the LF is supporting that has nothing to do with the LSB. In particular, if we can find specific gaps in kernel or package functionality, we would be willing to fund developers to write patches that would then be submitted to those projects. None of this would involve the LSB. Also, any requirements or gap analysis, or documentation or whitepapers, would also be totally separate from the LSB. Q. Isn't the LSB just a "bottom-feeding" standard that describes what everyone has already agreed on? Isn't it totally unsuited for CGL, which is defining new requirements? No, just because the LSB isn't required for all CGL work, doesn't mean that it can't be useful. The LSB supports the concept of optional modules, where new functionality can be specified that is not yet "best practice" -- i.e., is not yet shipping in the major distros. This is described in the LSB Charter <http://www.linux- foundation.org/en/LSB_Charter>. Q. What's your relevant experience for CGL? I helped run strategy for several of Craig McCaw's telecom companies -- including Nextel, XO, Teledesic, and ICO -- from 1995 to 2000. I was a venture capitalist with Skymoon Ventures from 2000 to 2005, and during that time served as the founding CEO of two companies using embedded Linux in their products. Pedestal Networks was a DSL equipment vendor that was sold to UT Starcom. Dash Networks is a dashboard navigation system (with onboard GPS, Wi-Fi, and GPRS). I've also co-authored several IETF standards, including RFC 3023 and the soon-to-be-published Usefor draft, and participated in numerous IETF and W3C standards activities. Q. Will the LF support registration for CGL 4.0 compliant distros. A. Yes, we already do, although it's not glamorous or rigorous. Any distro is welcome to update <http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/ Registration> to register their compliance with CGL requirements. Q. Will the LF promote CGL 4.0 registration? A. It depends on the specific promotional request. Brand building is an expensive endeavor whether it is PR, advertising, trade show support, logo development, etc. and we need to understand what the goals for the CGL workgroup are here. If those goals are in line with the resources we can afford to allocate to this group, then we can consider it. In most of our work, the LF is more interested in certification than registration, which generally means passing a rigorous test suite. For our collaboration work, the large majority of our members have asked us to focus on running code (i.e., useful patches), and documentation. Q. What do you think the CGL should be focused on? A. At the end of the day, the CGL members need to reach consensus on what they want to do. Hopefully, that will be compatible with what the LF can support and we can provide a positive forum for getting work done. As of today, before having been able to speak to all of the key members of the group, I would suggest the following: If SCOPE is willing, CGL should launch a joint effort over the next several months to construct a gaps analysis document comparing the key requirements from CGL 4.0 (and other critical customer requirements that didn't get in the spec) with the state of the latest distro releases. Many of the CGL requirements are already handled by the mainline kernel, and so are supported by every recent distro release. Some others are never going to get into the mainline kernel or distros, and so whether they are really critical customer requirements should be evaluated. Other requirements are vague or are useful for only a very small minority of carriers. I think a gaps document that succinctly represented what this special (and important) class of customers needs from Linux (that is not already there) would be an extremely valuable input for the Linux ecosystem. For example, I've spoken separately to both a top Red Hat executive and a top kernel developer who agree on the value of a gaps analysis on better understanding their customers. Both have had issues with CGL in the past, and yet are now interested in participating in the gaps analysis that CGL/SCOPE could undertake and then acting on the results of that analysis. If we can then identify a few specific, actionable gaps that can be addressed with a reasonable amount of focused activity, the LF can probably fund a developer or two to do specific projects. We can also coordinate among CGL member companies working to improve different areas. Q. Isn't SCOPE a competitor? A. Somewhat, but that's OK. The majority of SCOPE members are also members of the LF. I have heard from several of them that they wanted to break away from CGL because it was too telecom focused, while SCOPE could address the needs of network equipment providers. Other SCOPE members have different motivations. At the LF, we understand that trade groups and standards consortia are a marketplace. For any given project, companies normally have a choice of several different consortia, or of starting a new one. We see no need for the LF to be the sole consortium for anything touching Linux. Competition makes us more responsive. We are also happy to work with other consortia when it is helpful. Q. You're trying to sound flexible, but doesn't the LF impose a lot of restrictions? A. We are aiming for the LF to be a very easy group to work with. We do, however, try to follow these guidelines for all of the work that we sponsor: + We believe that mailing lists should be publicly accessible and that participation should be open to anyone, not just paying members. We think the IETF has shown the value of opening up participation to anyone interested. In reality, it is largely vendor- supported engineers who are available to do the heavy lifting, but we think there's a big value to transparency and working in the open. It keeps the community in the loop, which makes them more cooperative when we ask things of them. + All code that we produce is licensed under an open source license, and all content under an open content license. Code should be in the form of a patch to the latest mainline of the kernel or the relevant package. If we submit a patch, and fail to convince the maintainers to accept it, we plan to drop the work. The Linux ecosystem has a methodology that we believe in and want to follow. That occasionally means that valuable work we have performed will be dropped on the floor. That's a reasonable tradeoff for the value of not having to maintain a fork. + Other reasonable output is an LSB module (optional or required), test suites, documentation, whitepapers, or analysis documents. All of these will be published under an open source or open content license. + Our aim is to get support from the relevant communities and every major distro for whatever work is produced. That doesn't mean that each distro or developer gets a veto, but it does imply a very large effort at collaboration with the distros and the relevant kernel subsystem or package maintainers. Q. When can we talk more about this? A. Obviously, here on the mailing list. But if SCOPE would invite me to the meeting in Stockholm next week, I would be happy to attend and get a chance to discuss these issues with all of you there. Q. What about the LF Collaboration Summit? A. It's June 13 to 15 in Mountain View. All CGL members are invited, as are other critical community members on a case-by-case basis. <http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/ Linux_Foundation_Collaboration_Summit>. We'd like to do a CGL session on Friday, June 15. - dan -- Dan Kohn <mailto:dan@xxxxxxxxxxx> COO, The Linux Foundation <http://www.linux-foundation.org> <http://www.dankohn.com/> <tel:+1-415-233-1000>