The MS Security Initiative is an utter sham. I commented on the uselessness of the "new, improved" MS Security Bulletin web pages when they were "upgraded" to .mspx form. In doing so I rather rudely pinned the blame for the unusability of the new Security Bulletin pages on the MSRC staff -- as subsequent Email from MSRC confirmed, they simply provide the content which is then served to the world at the whim of one or other of MS' web design teams. And, to give them their dues, they "fixed" those pages so "weird" folk like me whose security sensibilities require surfing with scripting disabled could actually read all the content of those pages without having to resort to the ugliness and inconvenience of source viewing and the like. (Of course, they had to do it in such a way that the original, security-antagonistic "improved features" -- mainly of the "flying pink elephant" kind -- were retained, thereby increasing the size and complexity of all those pages...) Singling out MSRC for the blame in that case at least had a chance of getting it fixed so a resource I have to use was at least usefully usable again. For reasons I now forget, I never got around to the follow-up post on much the same issues as they were present in the "Order the Windows Security Update CD" page -- the page is designed to be unusable unless you have scripting enabled in your browser (from memory it used a script to submit the initial stage of the order form -- choosing the country your ordered CD was to be delivered to). I know scripting is enabled by default in the joke of a program that passes for a web browser in a default Windows installation, but why do MS web designers assume the rest of the world is as security antagonistic (or perhaps just as security ignorant?) as they themselves are? Anyway, the reason for today's swing at MS' web designers -- spam. I just had occasion to attempt to revisit a bookmarked MS-hosted page dealing with spam, specifically: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/1299/spam/spam.htm Imagine my surprise when an apparently successful page load resulted in an entirely blank window... From viewing the page source the problem was apparent -- aside from the the minimum structural requirements of a proper HTML page, the page consisted solely of a script tag that pulls in its content from: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/mind.js In turn that is a simple script that lowercases the URI of its container page (which is the .../spam.htm URI from above because the script is included into that page's "head" section), searches that for the last instance of ".htm", replacing it with ".asp" then does a window.parent.location.replace to redirect the page. With scripting enabled the result of trying to visit the original target URI is a near instant redirect to: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/1299/spam/spam.asp Independent of the gross stupidity of assuming everyone is dumb enough to browse with scripting enabled that this entails, it also strikes me as terribly inefficient from the user's perspective (but maybe that's an issue you're unlikely to be able to convince the staff of the wealthiest company on Earth, who all sit on fast network connections and would rather save a few grand by not adding a box or two more to the server farm by pushing out stupid little script pages to get their web visitors to use network bandwidth and their own CPU power to calculate web redirects on MS' behalf). Was it really too much work to remap all the ".htm" content under the http://www.microsoft.com/mind/ tree to ".asp"?? Of course, the observant among you will have noticed that the above page has not yet been converted to ".mspx" format and still languishes as a ".asp". Believe it or not, things may yet get sillier... For ages I have told less technical folk (especially SOHO types) asking for such advice that they should visit www.microsoft.com/security -- following my own advice the other day in the need to check something out, imagine my surprise when an apparently successful page load resulted in an entirely blank window... I guess it is not that surprising now, eh? As best I can tell, requesting that URI results in what is actually: http://www.microsoft.com/security/default.asp being served. Guess what? That page consists solely of an absolutely minimal set of HTML tags and the one-line script: window.location.replace("/security/default.mspx") intended to redirect script-enabled users to: http://www.microsoft.com/security/default.mspx while leaving scriptless visitors staring at a blank page. The obvious first question is why is the server still configured to serve default.asp, rather than default.mspx, when asked for http://www.microsoft.com/security/? Sure, keep a default.asp page with some kind of redirection in place to handle all those bookmark and link references that originally included the "default.asp" part of the URI path, but why leave the server config to treat that as the default page to serve for that URI? Second, if you must redirect, as above, why do it purely using client-side script? ... All this _recent_ script nonsense is clearly antithetical to Billy Boy's close to 2.5 year old dictate that security must trump featuritis in MS products and services. Is 28 months not enough time to hammer into the web designers at MS the basic idea that assuming client-side scripting is enabled across the the board is both stupid and antithetical to the company's much vaunted (though seemingly worthless) "Security Initiative"? The continued appearance of new web pages that require client-side scripting be enabled for the page to have _any_ utility at all, _especially_ when there are better non-script alternatives suggests that those who design and provide the most public face of MS -- its web site -- not only have not yet got the picture, but have no idea that the frame of reference was changed more than two years ago... Don't get me wrong -- folk who want or, <shiver> "need", to see the pink flying elephant "features" as most welcome to them, along with all the horrendous security vulnerability exploits that are so much easier in script-enabled browsers. More power to them -- heck, they ensure we have a job... But for pity's sake, why are MS' web designers _still_ designing pages that require scripting where simple "submit", "href" and such other _basic_ HTML concepts will provide the same level of functionality for the main purpose of "bread and butter" web browsing -- information presentation??? At the outset of the Security Initiative the skeptics largely said "it's a marketing ploy", but its defenders said "it will take time for the real results to be seen". As the weeks turned into months and now years and little has been seen to have improved (and some very public things to have gone backwards), it seems increasingly that the skeptics may have been right... Regards, Nick FitzGerald