On Thu, 2022-07-14 at 18:51 -0700, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 06:42:52PM +0000, Delyan Kratunov wrote:
> >
> > > but have you though of maybe initially supporting something like:
> > >
> > > bpf_timer_init(&timer, map, SOME_NEW_DEFERRED_NMI_ONLY_FLAG);
> > > bpf_timer_set_callback(&timer, cg);
> > > bpf_timer_start(&timer, 0, 0);
> > >
> > > If you init a timer with that special flag, I'm assuming you can have
> > > special cases in the existing helpers to simulate the delayed work?
> >
> > Potentially but I have some reservations about drawing this equivalence.
>
> hrtimer api has various: flags. soft vs hard irq, pinned and not.
> So the suggestion to treat irq_work callback as special timer flag
> actually fits well.
>
> bpf_timer_init + set_callback + start can be a static inline function
> named bpf_work_submit() in bpf_helpers.h
> (or some new file that will mark the beginning libc-bpf library).
> Reusing struct bpf_timer and adding zero-delay callback could probably be
> easier for users to learn and consume.
To clarify, we're talking about 1) making bpf_timer nmi-safe for _some_ but not all
combinations of parameters and 2) adding new flags to specify an execution context?
It's achievable but it's hard to see how it's the superior solution here.
>
> Separately:
> +struct bpf_delayed_work {
> + __u64 :64;
> + __u64 :64;
> + __u64 :64;
> + __u64 :64;
> + __u64 :64;
> +} __attribute__((aligned(8)));
> is not extensible.
> It would be better to add indirection to allow kernel side to grow
> independently from amount of space consumed in a map value.
Fair point, I was wondering what to do with it - storing just a pointer sounds
reasonable.
> Can you think of a way to make irq_work/sleepable callback independent of maps?
> Assume bpf_mem_alloc is already available and NMI prog can allocate a typed object.
> The usage could be:
> struct my_work {
> int a;
> struct task_struct __kptr_ref *t;
> };
> void my_cb(struct my_work *w);
>
> struct my_work *w = bpf_mem_alloc(allocator, bpf_core_type_id_local(*w));
> w->t = ..;
> bpf_submit_work(w, my_cb, SLEEPABLE | IRQ_WORK);
>
> Am I day dreaming? :)
Nothing wrong with dreaming of a better future :)
(I'm assuming you're thinking of bpf_mem_alloc being fronted by the allocator you
recently sent to the list.)
On a first pass, here are my concerns:
A program and its maps can guarantee a certain amount of storage for work items.
Sizing that storage is difficult but it is yours alone to use. The freelist allocator
can be transiently drained by other programs and starve you of this utility. This is
a new failure mode, so it's worth talking about.
With a generic allocator mechanism, we'll have a hard time enforcing the can't-load-
or-store-into-special-fields logic. I like that guardrail and I'm not sure how we'd
achieve the same guarantees. (In your snippet, we don't have the llist_node on the
work item - do we wrap my_work into something else internally? That would hide the
fields that need protecting at the expense of an extra bpf_mem_alloc allocation.)
Managing the storage returned from bpf_mem_alloc is of course also a concern. We'd
need to treat bpf_submit_work as "releasing" it (really, taking ownership). This path
means more lifecycle analysis in the verifier and explicit and implicit free()s.
I'm not opposed to it overall - the developer experience is very familiar - but I am
primarily worried that allocator failures will be in the same category of issues as
the hash map collisions for stacks. If you want reliability, you just don't use that
type of map - what's the alternative in this hypothetical bpf_mem_alloc future?
-- Delyan
