On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 10:21:01PM -0500, Alan Stern wrote: > On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 02:03:48PM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 03:22:46PM -0500, Alan Stern wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 09:40:22AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > > On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 12:12:21PM -0500, Alan Stern wrote: > > > > > > > > Local variables absolutely should be treated just like CPU registers, if > > > > > possible. In fact, the compiler has the option of keeping local > > > > > variables stored in registers. > > > > > > > > > > (Of course, things may get complicated if anyone writes a litmus test > > > > > that uses a pointer to a local variable, Especially if the pointer > > > > > could hold the address of a local variable in one execution and a > > > > > shared variable in another! Or if the pointer is itself a shared > > > > > variable and is dereferenced in another thread!) > > > > > > > > Good point! I did miss this complication. ;-) > > > > > > I suspect it wouldn't be so bad if herd7 disallowed taking addresses of > > > local variables. > > > > > > > As you say, when its address is taken, the "local" variable needs to be > > > > treated as is it were shared. There are exceptions where the pointed-to > > > > local is still used only by its process. Are any of these exceptions > > > > problematic? > > > > > > Easiest just to rule out the whole can of worms. > > > > Good point, given that a global can be used instead of a local for > > any case where an address must be taken. > > Another thing to consider: Almost all marked accesses involve using the > address of the storage location (for example, smp_load_acquire's first > argument must be a pointer). As far as I can remember at the moment, > the only ones that don't are READ_ONCE and WRITE_ONCE. So although we > might or might not want to allow READ_ONCE or WRITE_ONCE on a local > variable, we won't have to worry about any of the other kinds of marked > accesses. Good point! > > > > > But even if local variables are treated as non-shared storage locations, > > > > > we should still handle this correctly. Part of the problem seems to lie > > > > > in the definition of the to-r dependency relation; the relevant portion > > > > > is: > > > > > > > > > > (dep ; [Marked] ; rfi) > > > > > > > > > > Here dep is the control dependency from the READ_ONCE to the > > > > > local-variable store, and the rfi refers to the following load of the > > > > > local variable. The problem is that the store to the local variable > > > > > doesn't go in the Marked class, because it is notated as a plain C > > > > > assignment. (And likewise for the following load.) > > > > > > > > > > Should we change the model to make loads from and stores to local > > > > > variables always count as Marked? > > > > > > > > As long as the initial (possibly unmarked) load would be properly > > > > complained about. > > > > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. > > > > I was thinking in terms of something like this in one of the processes: > > > > p = gp; // Unmarked! > > r1 = p; > > q = r1; // Implicitly marked now? > > if (q) > > WRITE_ONCE(x, 1); // ctrl dep from gp??? > > I hope we won't have to worry about this! :-) Treating local variable > accesses as if they are always marked looks wrong. Good, that is where I was also heading. ;-) > > > > And I cannot immediately think of a situation where > > > > this approach would break that would not result in a data race being > > > > flagged. Or is this yet another failure of my imagination? > > > > > > By definition, an access to a local variable cannot participate in a > > > data race because all such accesses are confined to a single thread. > > > > True, but its value might have come from a load from a shared variable. > > Then that load could have participated in a data race. But the store to > the local variable cannot. Agreed. My thought was that if the ordering from the initial (non-local) load mattered, then that initial load must have participated in a data race. Is that true, or am I failing to perceive some corner case? > > > However, there are other aspects to consider, in particular, the > > > ordering relations on local-variable accesses. But if, as Luc says, > > > local variables are treated just like registers then perhaps the issue > > > doesn't arise. > > > > Here is hoping! > > > > > > > What should have happened if the local variable were instead a shared > > > > > variable which the other thread didn't access at all? It seems like a > > > > > weak point of the memory model that it treats these two things > > > > > differently. > > > > > > > > But is this really any different than the situation where a global > > > > variable is only accessed by a single thread? > > > > > > Indeed; it is the _same_ situation. Which leads to some interesting > > > questions, such as: What does READ_ONCE(r) mean when r is a local > > > variable? Should it be allowed at all? In what way is it different > > > from a plain read of r? > > > > > > One difference is that the LKMM doesn't allow dependencies to originate > > > from a plain load. Of course, when you're dealing with a local > > > variable, what matters is not the load from that variable but rather the > > > earlier loads which determined the value that had been stored there. > > > Which brings us back to the case of the > > > > > > dep ; rfi > > > > > > dependency relation, where the accesses in the middle are plain and > > > non-racy. Should the LKMM be changed to allow this? > > > > It would be nice, give or take the potential side effects. ;-) > > As in it would be nice, but might not be worthwhile. > > Treating local variables like registers will automatically bring this > behavior. So I think we'll be good. Sounds good. > > > There are other differences to consider. For example: > > > > > > r = READ_ONCE(x); > > > smp_wmb(); > > > WRITE_ONCE(y, 1); > > > > > > If the write to r were treated as a marked store, the smp_wmb would > > > order it (and consequently the READ_ONCE) before the WRITE_ONCE. > > > However we don't want to do this when r is a local variable. Indeed, a > > > plain store wouldn't be ordered this way because the compiler might > > > optimize the store away entirely, leaving the smp_wmb nothing to act on. > > > > Agreed, having smp_wmb() order things due to a write to a local variable > > would not be what we want. > > > > > So overall the situation is rather puzzling. Treating local variables > > > as registers is probably the best answer. > > > > That is sounding quite appealing at the moment. > > Agreed. Thanx, Paul
