On Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:08 PM, Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:36:43AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:29 AM Alexei Starovoitov > > alexei.starovoitov@xxxxxxxxx wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:24:54AM +0000, Jordan Glover wrote: > > > > > > > systemd --user processes aren't "less privileged". The are COMPLETELY unprivileged. > > > > Granting them cap_bpf is the same as granting it to every other unprivileged user > > > > process. Also unprivileged user process can start systemd --user process with any > > > > command they like. > > > > > > systemd itself is trusted. It's the same binary whether it runs as pid=1 > > > or as pid=123. One of the use cases is to make IPAddressDeny= work with --user. > > > Subset of that feature already works with AmbientCapabilities=CAP_NET_ADMIN. > > > CAP_BPF is a natural step in the same direction. > > > > I have the feeling that we're somehow speaking different languages. > > What, precisely, do you mean when you say "systemd itself is trusted"? > > Do you mean "the administrator trusts that the /lib/systemd/systemd > > binary is not malicious"? Do you mean "the administrator trusts that > > the running systemd process is not malicious"? > > please see > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/4c1567f29aeb60a6741874bca8a8e3a0bd69ed01 > I'm not advocating for or against this approach. > Call it 'security hole' or 'better security'. > There are two categories of people for any feature like this. > My point that there is a demand to use bpf for non-root and CAP_NET_ADMIN > level of privileges is acceptable. > Another option is to relax all of bpf to CAP_NET_ADMIN instead of CAP_SYS_ADMIN. > But CAP_BPF is clearly better way. > Do you realize it's not possible to grant CAP_NET_ADMIN or any other CAP in "systemd --user" service? Trying to do so will fail with: "Failed to apply ambient capabilities (before UID change): Operation not permitted" I think it's crucial to clear that point to avoid confusion in this discussion where people are talking about different things. On the other hand running "systemd --system" service with: User=nobody AmbientCapabilities=CAP_NET_ADMIN is perfectly legit and clears some security concerns as only privileged user can start such service. Jordan
