Might I ask what the firetruck this has to do w/Linux accessibility, & why this branch of the discussion is allowed to persist, except, of course, for the fact there's no moderator. Come on, yall--this is normally a productive list--it's now nothing more than a dumpster fire. Can yall *please* QUIT! On 8/17/22, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Glen, > I have no reason to follow up on anything. The role of a commission, and > the duty of a rehab system employee are two different things. > that you state you work for a nfb philosophy rehab office speaks volumes > for your integrity. > clearly your staff simply tell this commission what they want to hear, or > they exist in name only. > nothing changes your description of your state. > > > > On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: > >> I knew you wouldn't follow up on it, they would just laugh at you. >> Glenn >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim" >> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; >> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:48 PM >> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >> >> >> Glen, >> why would I bother? >> your own words as a seasoned employee speak for themselves. >> Nebraska is an NFB philosophy state. >> Were you here in Ontario, that could be a human rights violation, since >> here the code establishes that claiming everyone sharing a label >> accommodates the same is a violation of the individual's human rights. >> No wonder the state of new York supported my professional move, if rehab >> systems like yours are Nfb puppets. >> The commission is not the individual rehab staffer, who states he makes >> decisions using a NFB dictionary. >> >> >> >> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >> >>> Karen, >>> Start out at the web site for >>> Nebraska Commission for the Blind. >>> There are links to communicate with all the board members, who are >>> appointed >>> by the governor. >>> Glenn >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim" >>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; >>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>> >>> >>> Do what? >>> where I am it is actually a violation of vendor contract to tell someone >>> they must use a certain tool. >>> give them the chance in an office to try several things yes. >>> Force jaws down their throat like rehab does no. >>> I said I wished I knew someone in Nebraska media not that I >>> did...although >>> perhaps. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>> >>>> Please do. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim" >>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; >>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 3:46 PM >>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>> >>>> >>>> Glen, >>>> you are missing the point. >>>> A commission board, at least if constructed with integrity serves as a >>>> watchdog for your organization's activities. >>>> Making sure that you act, objectively, and above influence with >>>> government >>>> funding. >>>> That role differs from a public servant, like yourself. >>>> In fact that the commission has members from both organizations is >>>> exactly why you should not be a member. >>>> if, as you said, the state has an Nfb philosophy, I wonder just how >>>> above >>>> influence that commission actually is, lip service attendance does not >>>> translate to the statement you freely made. >>>> Honestly, i wish I knew someone with Nebraska public radio. there is a >>>> investigative, data journalism piece right here, exploring how >>>> objective >>>> your office is in fact. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>> >>>>> Karen, >>>>> In Nebraska, the commission board attends both consumer groups' state >>>>> conventions. >>>>> So there is total transparency within the consumer groups. >>>>> The agency sends clients to both conventions for educational purposes. >>>>> Some can go to either national convention on the state. >>>>> Glenn >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim" >>>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; >>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 2:06 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wrong. >>>>> Your first duty is to those clients You serve. as illustrated here >>>>> the >>>>> Nfb >>>>> used their ability to reach insiders to influence policy to the >>>>> detriment >>>>> of the broader community...same can clearly be said for freedom >>>>> scientific. >>>>> That you stated clearly that your rehab system runs on an nfb >>>>> philosophy >>>>> illustrates my point perfectly. >>>>> There are countless legal terms for such conflicts of interest, I >>>>> dare >>>>> say if you were serving any other clientele your government watchdog >>>>> would >>>>> put a stop to the practice. >>>>> allows the organization to have undue almost antitrust influence on >>>>> people's lives. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't think so, we are people first, and being a government >>>>>> employee >>>>>> should not preclude personal rights. >>>>>> Besides, I attended the conventions for CEU credits, but I never >>>>>> joined >>>>>> with >>>>>> dues. >>>>>> Glenn >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim" >>>>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; >>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:36 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> speaking personally? >>>>>> No government employee should be a member of the NfB. ethical >>>>>> conflict >>>>>> of interest personified. >>>>>> >>>>>> Karen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, I had been to a state NFBN convention that year and did the >>>>>>> PAC >>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>> Then when the NFB did that, I called up the state treasurer for the >>>>>>> NFBN >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> cancelled my PAC plan. >>>>>>> I told them that they don't care if I can read my money, then they >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> need any from me. >>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> To: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Cc: "John G. Heim" <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; "K0LNY_Glenn" >>>>>>> <glenn@ervin.email>; >>>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:18 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My personal favorite is the rejection of money that could be >>>>>>> identified >>>>>>> by touch. never mind that for honestly thousands of years the >>>>>>> practice >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been common so those with limited education could still engage in >>>>>>> commerce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Butch Bussen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I remember that. And what about their oposition to >>>>>>>> descriptive >>>>>>>> video, >>>>>>>> even filed a law sute to get the law thrown out, which it was at >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>> 73 >>>>>>>> Butch >>>>>>>> WA0VJR >>>>>>>> Node 3148 >>>>>>>> Wallace, ks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, John G. Heim wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Holy cow! Are you aware that the NFB once asked Microsoft to >>>>>>>>> *NOT* >>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>> Narrator to the point where it would compete with Jaws? If you >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> NFB is incapable of forcing choices on people, you are very sadly >>>>>>>>> mistaken. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/16/22 09:36, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> This sort of thing would never happen in Nebraska, or any state >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> agency staff is of the NFB philosophy. >>>>>>>>>> Say what you want about the NFB, no organization is without its >>>>>>>>>> problems, >>>>>>>>>> but it is the core philosophy that formed the NFB that knows >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>>> has low expectations of the Blind, and this is why the NFB >>>>>>>>>> believes >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> skills and high expectations. >>>>>>>>>> And with that, comes giving respect to the Blind, like the >>>>>>>>>> respect >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> choice. >>>>>>>>>> Yeah I know about the information of recent about NFB abuse, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> organizational issues, unrelated to the philosophy. In fact, >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> fact >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> it has come up demonstrates that the NFB is no different than >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> organization in interpersonal staff issues. >>>>>>>>>> And choice does not mean training center choices. >>>>>>>>>> Choice isn't always an option, just like if you took a >>>>>>>>>> vocational >>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> college, there are things you have to take, so to me, the lack >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> choice >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> this regard is different than computer software, where all the >>>>>>>>>> choices >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> reach the same end result. >>>>>>>>>> In states where the NFB philosophy is embraced, if a client >>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> use a Mac, or I want Window Eyes, then that is what they would >>>>>>>>>> get, >>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>> questions asked. >>>>>>>>>> They would not have to fight to get it. >>>>>>>>>> I simply cannot imagine a counselor saying that someone has to >>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> software that the counselor wants them to have. >>>>>>>>>> When I hear that stuff, I almost cannot believe it, but I know >>>>>>>>>> Butch >>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>> enough to know he wouldn't make that up. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>> To: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>; >>>>>>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>>>>>> "Milan >>>>>>>>>> Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:18 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are right. In Nevada, freedom pushed jaws to the rehab >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> took them out for steak diners and so forth. I fought like >>>>>>>>>> hell >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> them to buy window-eyes. >>>>>>>>>> 73 >>>>>>>>>> Butch >>>>>>>>>> WA0VJR >>>>>>>>>> Node 3148 >>>>>>>>>> Wallace, ks. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And where do these employers learn about jaws? >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, provide if you do not mind an example of how this >>>>>>>>>>> works >>>>>>>>>>> exactly. >>>>>>>>>>> after all, unless I am incorrect, these employers are not >>>>>>>>>>> personal >>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>> users, meaning someone they trust continues to sell them on an >>>>>>>>>>> expensive >>>>>>>>>>> program instead of a largely free one. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Karen, >>>>>>>>>>>> Most employers don't want NVDA, and will only allow Jaws. >>>>>>>>>>>> In Nebraska, if an employer said put on whatever works, the >>>>>>>>>>>> counselors >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> use NVDA, because of the cost of Jaws. >>>>>>>>>>>> If some of the clients in a call center already use Jaws, >>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>> don't know >>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA, the counselor will use Jaws, because the other >>>>>>>>>>>> clients >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> learn one of the two. >>>>>>>>>>>> So it's all choice, but in the workplace, it depends on >>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> employer >>>>>>>>>>>> will allow. >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, sometimes scripts need to be made, and there are more >>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws >>>>>>>>>>>> scripters >>>>>>>>>>>> available than there are NVDA add-on writers. >>>>>>>>>>>> So this perception that Jaws is forced by rehab, from my 31 >>>>>>>>>>>> years >>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>> business I can say is rubbish. >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, if a counselor did not know how to use NVDA, and >>>>>>>>>>>> either >>>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> chosen, >>>>>>>>>>>> the rehab counselor is able to select the one that the >>>>>>>>>>>> counselor >>>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> best for the student and for the counselor's teaching. >>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to part B moneys, which is used for >>>>>>>>>>>> non-vocational >>>>>>>>>>>> purchases, >>>>>>>>>>>> where a lot of Jaws purchases come from, it is in the >>>>>>>>>>>> agency's >>>>>>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>>>>>> interest >>>>>>>>>>>> to spend as little as possible, because that doesn't come >>>>>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>>>>> like VR >>>>>>>>>>>> expenditures do. >>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" >>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:15 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The challenge with that example is that, as one often gets >>>>>>>>>>>> reminded, >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> rehab systems track record for facilitating employment for >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> clients >>>>>>>>>>>> is quite poor. >>>>>>>>>>>> With a high percentage of unemployment among our clients. >>>>>>>>>>>> Making, >>>>>>>>>>>> speaking personally, your buying Jaws for personal use not >>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>> reflecting how the system would respond to an alternative >>>>>>>>>>>> request. >>>>>>>>>>>> Now if someone from organized rehab said, okay freedom >>>>>>>>>>>> scientific, we >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> creating an employment program where our clients will train >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Linux, >>>>>>>>>>>> needing a solid screen reader solution for the system. We >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> give you >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive development contract for s millions to create the >>>>>>>>>>>> tool. >>>>>>>>>>>> Fs would likely say where do we sign? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> True enough, but largely, rehab people typically use >>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> work, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> probably at home, but they need to cater to the needs of >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> client. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If a client used Linux, I doubt that any rehab counselor >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> advocate >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> the client switch to Windows, unless that was needed for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> specific >>>>>>>>>>>>> job. >>>>>>>>>>>>> In Nebraska, we purchased Jaws much more for personal use >>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>> we did >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> work related situations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So if FS made a JFL, and people were using Linux, rehab >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed >>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase a JFL product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" >>>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 3:01 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there was an interesting discussion a month or so back on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> blinux >>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>> about how long it took completing tasks in the gui as >>>>>>>>>>>>> apposed >>>>>>>>>>>>> to say >>>>>>>>>>>>> command line, the comments were quite informative. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, fs has never marketed largely to the end user. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead >>>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the American rehab community. >>>>>>>>>>>>> how much market research has the rehab community done to >>>>>>>>>>>>> support the >>>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>>> for choices? >>>>>>>>>>>>> How many rehab counselors support training in Linux? >>>>>>>>>>>>> one comment made by the subject of this thread about poor >>>>>>>>>>>>> quality >>>>>>>>>>>>> speech >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a fine one...out of the box Linux has few speech >>>>>>>>>>>>> choices. >>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> brings their needs to the table there. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you want to get fs to care about Linux, you need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> prove >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>>>>>>> money for them there, from their main source of income. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well since Orca seems to work on so many distros, I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not be able to do the same. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Jaws users could switch into Linux, it would be a real >>>>>>>>>>>>>> game >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changer, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think with lots more Blind Linux users, we would start >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessibility in Linux not being a second thought. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:47 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well technically freedom scientific does not exist any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer, being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bought >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by another company. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, I can respect why they, or nvda have not created >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is because as I understand it, Linux is quite like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mold a distribution into almost anything. there are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>>>> personifications of the system, all sorts of ways and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for creativity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> however adaptive tools are often extensions of physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristics, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands, eyes, ears, brains, combinations of these. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To build solid assistive tools one must have a solid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were. that is part of why there have needed to be so few >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple >>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inclusion, they created with, and then created in-house >>>>>>>>>>>>>> adaptive >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for various populations that were built into the system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although Microsoft did not bother until much later, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> least, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistency of windows is what makes it possible for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> former >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gw micro or nvda to create something that can in theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Floor for the furniture is somewhat solid. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to see Freedom Scientific make a Jaws For >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JFL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd certainly pay the yearly rental fee for it, and it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would bring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users into Linux. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FS could, with its resources, possibly make it more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robust >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orca. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:08 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "KL" == Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> What bothers me most are his lack of actual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced..as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> defines Linux usage for everyone. That attitude is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> dangerous, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> because he is educating those outside of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> accessibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> experiences, who will believe his ignorance is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factual. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL> to be expert, it is his job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Karen, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Lukas personally and I admire his skills and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualifications. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also know first hand that he is open to constructive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe heâ?Td be happy to be corrected about possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccuracies in the interview. It may be also a good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out whatâ?Ts possibly missing in making anybody >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> informed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for â?oabsolute dismissal of what he has not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiencedâ?�, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable free software alternatives to a less or more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> desktop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Orca and a software synthesizer can you see for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who needs to use a fully working web browser, to read >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, to be compatible with other computer users, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And letâ?Ts be realistic. We celebrate every single >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hired >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve accessibility. This tells something about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matters. We cannot expect that a single person will fix >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of accessibility problems in all the environments. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job focusing on certain areas currently seen there as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> urgent ones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate this opportunity. Anybody else seeing a need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other areas is welcome to contribute to whatever sees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fit, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Milan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > -- Scam victim? Tell your story at www.scam911.org/surviving-the-scam Also check out brightstarsweb.com and mysitesbeenhacked.com Jackie McBride _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list