Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)

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Might I ask what the firetruck this has to do w/Linux accessibility, &
why this branch of the discussion is allowed to persist, except, of
course, for the fact there's no moderator.

Come on, yall--this is normally a productive list--it's now nothing
more than a dumpster fire. Can yall *please* QUIT!

On 8/17/22, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Glen,
> I have no reason to  follow up on anything.  The role of a commission, and
> the duty of a rehab system employee are  two different things.
> that you state you work for a  nfb philosophy rehab office speaks volumes
> for your integrity.
> clearly your staff simply tell this commission what they want to hear, or
> they exist in name only.
> nothing changes your description of your state.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>
>> I knew you wouldn't follow up on it, they would just laugh at you.
>> Glenn
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim"
>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>;
>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>
>>
>> Glen,
>> why would I bother?
>> your own words as a seasoned employee speak for themselves.
>> Nebraska is an NFB philosophy state.
>> Were you  here in Ontario, that  could be a human rights violation, since
>> here the code establishes that claiming everyone sharing a label
>> accommodates the same is a violation of the individual's human rights.
>> No wonder the state of new York supported my professional move, if rehab
>> systems like yours are Nfb puppets.
>> The commission is not the individual rehab staffer, who  states he makes
>> decisions using a NFB dictionary.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>
>>> Karen,
>>> Start out at the web site for
>>> Nebraska Commission for the Blind.
>>> There are links to communicate with all the board members, who are
>>> appointed
>>> by the governor.
>>> Glenn
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim"
>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>;
>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 4:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>> Do what?
>>> where I am it is actually a violation of vendor contract to tell someone
>>> they must use a certain tool.
>>> give them the chance in an office to try several things yes.
>>> Force jaws down their throat like rehab does no.
>>> I said I wished I knew someone in Nebraska media not that I
>>> did...although
>>> perhaps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please do.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim"
>>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>;
>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 3:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Glen,
>>>> you are missing the point.
>>>> A commission board, at least if constructed  with integrity serves as a
>>>> watchdog for your organization's activities.
>>>> Making sure that you act, objectively, and above influence with
>>>> government
>>>> funding.
>>>> That role differs from a public servant, like yourself.
>>>> In fact that the commission  has members from both organizations is
>>>> exactly why you should not be a member.
>>>> if, as you said, the state has an Nfb philosophy, I wonder  just how
>>>> above
>>>> influence  that commission actually is, lip service attendance does not
>>>> translate  to the statement you freely made.
>>>> Honestly, i wish I knew someone with Nebraska public radio.  there is a
>>>> investigative, data journalism piece right here, exploring how
>>>> objective
>>>> your  office is in fact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Karen,
>>>>> In Nebraska, the commission board attends both consumer groups' state
>>>>> conventions.
>>>>> So there is total transparency within the consumer groups.
>>>>> The agency sends clients to both conventions for educational purposes.
>>>>> Some can go to either national convention on the state.
>>>>> Glenn
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>;
>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 2:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>> Your first duty is to those clients  You serve.  as illustrated here
>>>>> the
>>>>> Nfb
>>>>> used their ability to reach insiders to influence policy to the
>>>>> detriment
>>>>> of the broader community...same can clearly be said for freedom
>>>>> scientific.
>>>>> That you stated clearly that your  rehab system runs on an nfb
>>>>> philosophy
>>>>> illustrates my point perfectly.
>>>>> There are countless legal terms for  such conflicts of interest, I
>>>>> dare
>>>>> say if you were serving any other clientele your government watchdog
>>>>> would
>>>>> put  a stop  to the practice.
>>>>> allows the organization to have undue almost antitrust influence on
>>>>> people's lives.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think so, we are people first, and being a government
>>>>>> employee
>>>>>> should not preclude personal rights.
>>>>>> Besides, I attended the conventions for CEU credits, but I never
>>>>>> joined
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> dues.
>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>>>> Cc: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "John G. Heim"
>>>>>> <jheim@xxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:36 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> speaking personally?
>>>>>> No government employee should be a member of the NfB.   ethical
>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>> of interest personified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, I had been to a state NFBN convention that year and did the
>>>>>>> PAC
>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>> Then when the NFB did that, I called up the state treasurer for the
>>>>>>> NFBN
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cancelled my PAC plan.
>>>>>>> I told them that they don't care if I can read my money, then they
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> need any from me.
>>>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Cc: "John G. Heim" <jheim@xxxxxxxx>; "K0LNY_Glenn"
>>>>>>> <glenn@ervin.email>;
>>>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>>> <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:18 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My personal favorite is the rejection of money that could be
>>>>>>> identified
>>>>>>> by touch.  never mind that for honestly thousands of years the
>>>>>>> practice
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> been common so those with limited education could still engage in
>>>>>>> commerce.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, Butch Bussen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I remember that.  And what about their oposition to
>>>>>>>> descriptive
>>>>>>>> video,
>>>>>>>> even filed a law sute to get the law thrown out, which it was at
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>> WA0VJR
>>>>>>>> Node 3148
>>>>>>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Holy cow! Are you aware that the NFB once asked Microsoft to
>>>>>>>>> *NOT*
>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>  Narrator to the point where it would compete with Jaws? If you
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>  NFB is incapable of forcing choices on people, you are very sadly
>>>>>>>>>  mistaken.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  On 8/16/22 09:36, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>   This sort of thing would never happen in Nebraska, or any state
>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>   agency staff is of the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>>   Say what you want about the NFB, no organization is without its
>>>>>>>>>>   problems,
>>>>>>>>>>   but it is the core philosophy that formed the NFB that knows
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>   society
>>>>>>>>>>   has low expectations of the Blind, and this is why the NFB
>>>>>>>>>> believes
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>   skills and high expectations.
>>>>>>>>>>   And with that, comes giving respect to the Blind, like the
>>>>>>>>>> respect
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>   choice.
>>>>>>>>>>   Yeah I know about the information of recent about NFB abuse,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>>   organizational issues, unrelated to the philosophy.  In fact,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>>   that
>>>>>>>>>>   it has come up demonstrates that the NFB is no different than
>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>   organization in interpersonal staff issues.
>>>>>>>>>>   And choice does not mean training center choices.
>>>>>>>>>>   Choice isn't always an option, just like if you took a
>>>>>>>>>> vocational
>>>>>>>>>>   course
>>>>>>>>>>   in
>>>>>>>>>>   college, there are things you have to take, so to me, the lack
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>   choice
>>>>>>>>>>   in
>>>>>>>>>>   this regard is different than computer software, where all the
>>>>>>>>>> choices
>>>>>>>>>>   will
>>>>>>>>>>   reach the same end result.
>>>>>>>>>>   In states where the NFB philosophy is embraced, if a client
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>>   use a Mac, or I want Window Eyes, then that is what they would
>>>>>>>>>> get,
>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>   questions asked.
>>>>>>>>>>   They would not have to fight to get it.
>>>>>>>>>>   I simply cannot imagine a counselor saying that someone has to
>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>   software that the counselor wants them to have.
>>>>>>>>>>   When I hear that stuff, I almost cannot believe it, but I know
>>>>>>>>>> Butch
>>>>>>>>>>   well
>>>>>>>>>>   enough to know he wouldn't make that up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>   From: "Butch Bussen" <butchb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>   To: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>   Cc: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>;
>>>>>>>>>> <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>>>>>>   "Milan
>>>>>>>>>>   Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 8:18 AM
>>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   You are right.  In Nevada, freedom pushed jaws to the rehab
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>   took them out for steak diners and so forth.  I fought like
>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>   them to buy window-eyes.
>>>>>>>>>>   73
>>>>>>>>>>   Butch
>>>>>>>>>>   WA0VJR
>>>>>>>>>>   Node 3148
>>>>>>>>>>   Wallace, ks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, 14 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   And where do these employers learn about jaws?
>>>>>>>>>>>   In fact, provide if you do not mind an example of how  this
>>>>>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>>>>>>   exactly.
>>>>>>>>>>>   after all, unless I am incorrect, these employers are not
>>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>>>   Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>   users, meaning someone they trust continues to sell them on an
>>>>>>>>>>>   expensive
>>>>>>>>>>>   program instead of a largely free one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Most employers don't want NVDA, and will only allow Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     In Nebraska, if an employer said put on whatever works, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>     counselors
>>>>>>>>>>>>     will
>>>>>>>>>>>>     use NVDA, because of the cost of Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     If some of the clients in a call center already use Jaws,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>     don't know
>>>>>>>>>>>>     NVDA, the counselor will use Jaws, because the other
>>>>>>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>     need
>>>>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>>>>     learn one of the two.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     So it's all choice, but in the workplace, it depends on
>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>   employer
>>>>>>>>>>>>     will allow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Also, sometimes scripts need to be made, and there are more
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>   scripters
>>>>>>>>>>>>     available than there are NVDA add-on writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     So this perception that Jaws is forced by rehab, from my 31
>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>>     in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>     business I can say is rubbish.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Now, if a counselor did not know how to use NVDA, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>     be
>>>>>>>>>>>>     chosen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     the rehab counselor is able to select the one that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>>     feels
>>>>>>>>>>>>   is
>>>>>>>>>>>>     best for the student and for the counselor's teaching.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     When it comes to part B moneys, which is used for
>>>>>>>>>>>> non-vocational
>>>>>>>>>>>>     purchases,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     where a lot of Jaws purchases come from, it is in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> agency's
>>>>>>>>>>>>     best
>>>>>>>>>>>>     interest
>>>>>>>>>>>>     to spend as little as possible, because that doesn't come
>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>     like VR
>>>>>>>>>>>>     expenditures do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>     <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>     <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     The challenge with that example is that, as one often gets
>>>>>>>>>>>>   reminded,
>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>     rehab systems track record for facilitating  employment for
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>   clients
>>>>>>>>>>>>     is quite poor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     With a high percentage of unemployment among our clients.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Making,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     speaking personally, your buying Jaws for personal use not
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>     reflecting how the system would respond to an alternative
>>>>>>>>>>>>     request.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Now if someone from organized rehab said, okay freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>>     scientific, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>   are
>>>>>>>>>>>>     creating an employment program where our clients will train
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux,
>>>>>>>>>>>>     needing a solid screen reader solution for the system.  We
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>     give you
>>>>>>>>>>>>     an
>>>>>>>>>>>>     exclusive development contract for s millions to create the
>>>>>>>>>>>> tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Fs would likely say where do we sign?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     True enough, but largely, rehab people typically use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     probably at home, but they need to cater to the needs of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     client.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     If a client used Linux, I doubt that any rehab counselor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   advocate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     the client switch to Windows, unless that was needed for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     In Nebraska, we purchased Jaws much more for personal use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work related situations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     So if FS made a JFL, and people were using Linux, rehab
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     indeed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     purchase a JFL product.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     there was an interesting discussion a month or so back on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     blinux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     about how long it took completing tasks in the gui as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apposed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     command line,  the comments were quite informative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Still, fs has never marketed largely to the end user.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     market
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     to the American rehab community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     how much market research has  the rehab community done to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     support the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for choices?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     How many rehab counselors support  training in Linux?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     one comment made by the subject of this thread about poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     quality
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   speech
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     is a fine one...out of the box Linux has few speech
>>>>>>>>>>>>> choices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     brings their needs to the table there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     if you want to get fs to care about Linux, you  need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     money for  them there, from their main source of income.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Well since Orca seems to work on so many distros, I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   know why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   FS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     not be able to do the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     If Jaws users could switch into Linux, it would be a real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     changer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I think with lots more Blind Linux users, we would start
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     accessibility in Linux not being a second thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Well technically freedom scientific does not exist any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     longer, being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     bought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     by another company.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Still, I can respect why they, or nvda have not created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     That is because as I understand it, Linux is  quite like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     clay. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     mold a distribution into almost anything. there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     personifications of the system, all sorts of ways and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     however adaptive tools are often extensions of physical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     characteristics,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     hands, eyes, ears, brains, combinations of these.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To build solid assistive tools one must have a solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     foundation as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     were.  that is part of why there have needed to be so few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     efforts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inclusion, they  created  with, and then created in-house
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     adaptive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     for various  populations that were built into the system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Although Microsoft did not bother until much later, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     least,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     consistency of windows is what makes it possible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     gw  micro or nvda to create something that can in theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Floor for the furniture is somewhat solid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I would like to see Freedom Scientific make a Jaws For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     JFL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I'd certainly pay the yearly rental fee for it, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     would bring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     users into Linux.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     FS could, with its resources, possibly make it more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robust
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Orca.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Glenn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     From: "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     To: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Cc: <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:08 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     "KL" == Karen Lewellen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   KL>  What bothers me most are his lack of actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   qualifications,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced..as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    defines Linux usage for everyone.  That attitude is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    dangerous,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    because he is educating those outside of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    accessibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    experiences, who will believe his ignorance is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KL>    he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   KL>  to be expert, it is his job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Hi Karen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I know Lukas personally and I admire his skills and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   qualifications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     also know first hand that he is open to constructive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     feedback and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     believe heâ?Td be happy to be corrected about possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     inaccuracies in the interview.  It may be also a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     opportunity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     find out whatâ?Ts possibly missing in making anybody
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     informed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     As for â?oabsolute dismissal of what he has not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   experiencedâ?�,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     reasonable free software alternatives to a less or more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     desktop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     with Orca and a software synthesizer can you see for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     who needs to use a fully working web browser, to read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     text
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     documents, to be compatible with other computer users,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     etc.?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     And letâ?Ts be realistic.  We celebrate every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   hired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     improve accessibility.  This tells something about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     state of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     matters.  We cannot expect that a single person will fix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     kinds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     of accessibility problems in all the environments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lukas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     works at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     job focusing on certain areas currently seen there as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     urgent ones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     appreciate this opportunity.  Anybody else seeing a need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     other areas is welcome to contribute to whatever sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     Milan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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> _______________________________________________
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