I use apps, like TweeseCake which is a client for Twitter, Mastodon, Telegram, Gihub, online radio, and file exploration because it's convenient. Admittedly, I only use the Twitter, Mastodon, and Telegram parts, but it's really nice to jube able to browse stuff from anywhere, only hearing what you need, nothing more. No need for a web browser, or a Pidgin thing where everything is in a list like Thunderbird, and if you have Discord set up there, can lag really hard due to all the channels and stuff collected there. I mean, there's a reason a few developers see the need to work on these things, because it gives us some of the speed that a sighted person gets from widgets and such. Devin Prater r.d.t.prater@xxxxxxxxx On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 7:31 PM Linux for blind general discussion < blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Kyle, I'm unsure on something. Not anything you said....but more a thought > I had, and it came up in a discussion I was in the other day about oh we > need a client for FB for the blind. > > My stance was yeah, no. FB doesn't like third party clients. How the frack > I'm not permabanned off of Discord for using a Pigin plugin I don't know, > but back to my main point and this may get ranty, I'm tired, I'm all arg, > why.... > > So. Why is it that there's this sub set of blind people who stick to what > I've seenn called various names, the blind/blindie bubble, blinkosphere > (which honestly just sounds like a navigation aid for someone....much like > a Walkman, and Bill Bryson had a great joke about that in one of his books) > et al. > > Why do people in that sphere want to use blind specific apps over > something that's bigger and more well known and has a lot of support. I've > flat out had people say oh no, Ubuntu isn't worth using, I'll use > Accessible Coconut or I want Vinux back. > > To which my response can be summed up as you want something maintained by > one person, who just does some scripts, turns off bits of an OS the smart > people at Canonical (despite their isues and questionable decisions with > some bits of Ubuntu) work on, and support? They recently wanted more A11Y > testers over on the Orca list as well, yet there's the sphere of blind > people who go oh I'm blind I must only use blind software, the same sort > that go I won't use this service because it's not blind friendly, when it > really is. They just didn't bother to spend more than ten seconds checking > it out. THe sort that go use Elton, and then go but but why is Facebook so > popular why can't Elton be like that...and they are the sort of people to, > at the same time, cry for more inclusivity then fight against it by not > using those apps or giving eeback to developers, yet be uber quick to call > out those same devs for not 'doing enough' when the devs got put onto > things that actually, you know, help a comp > any stay afloat. > > Sorry, it jusst got me thinking on that. m in your boat. Kyle. move over > and keep paddling. I'm blind. I'm a person. I'm not 'the blind', whatever > that is, that nebulous idea of 'the blind' and 'the sighted' really, really > bugs me, the us vs them mentality /some/ blind people have. > > Anyway, bringing this back to the point of the discussion, somthing else > in Linux's favor is it does work on older hardware and lower powered > machines as well, with things like XCE/LXDE (which I've had a tinker with > on Arch and kind of do like for what it is). Now if QT can sort itself out > and make something workable in the near futuree... > > I don't want apps designeed for the blind. I want those talented blind > people to work on apps everyone can use no matter your disability, no > matter if you're fully able, or blind, or deaf, or whatever your > disability. I mean, I've always thought the 'for the blind only' is > actually ableist ina kind of screwed up way, because they push away other > disabilities and only focus on their own. Looking at you, audio only games > or apps with a heavy, heavy focus on sound that drown out the speech > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:01:35PM -0400, Linux for blind general > discussion wrote: > > These are valid points. But what I get from Windows: a mostly clean > > > accessibility experience (mostly thanks to NVDA and community > support), and > > > a good many apps designed by and for the blind. > > > > > > Having been on a laptop recently just to test a website, I can say that > > although improvements have been made that make NVDA easier to use, its > > virtual buffering makes things harder to use, not easier, and the > > accessibility experience I found far less clean. This laptop I was on was > > fairly new, and I still had major problems just browsing because the > whole > > thing was made slower by the screen reader having to copy the page from > the > > website. Even worse since it has to infinite loop over the original and > > compare it with its copy in case anything ever changes. Next I must point > > out that although I am blind, I have never fallen into the category of > "the > > blind." This is a point I failed to make early on in this thread, > although I > > make it here. I, AM, NOT, THE, BLIND, I, AM HUMAN! I shout it from the > > rooftops. I, AM, HUMAN, it's only my eyes that don't work so well. I will > > also point out that some years ago, I found myself running that horrible > > beast of a non-operating system just to play two games and to use a > twitter > > client that was made for as you so eloquently put it, "the blind." Once I > > saw that this was all I was using it for, I tossed that virtual machine > into > > the trash faster than you can say "toss that virtual machine into the > > trash." I found that it certainly wasn't worth my time and energy to > keep it > > running just for that frivolous activity that I could do on the host > Linux > > OS with just a little more effort, and the Twitter website really isn't > so > > bad that it needs "for the blind" treatment. > > > > > I mean I have Google Chrome set as my default browser right now. And I > can > > > uninstall a lot. There's no Candy Crush Saga, and I just uninstalled > Dizney > > > Plus. > > > > > > What? How did you do all that? I got help trying to get some of that > crap gone, and it WILL, NOT, GO, not even on 10. OK I think 3 of us were > able to wrestle Disney Plus off the thing, but getting rid of that > Microsoft browser is a no-go, along with many other things that just didn't > have the appropriate uninstall or remove type of buttons, only a link that > took us to a help page about how to uninstall software. But the crap simply > won't go, no matter how hard we tried to get it gone. Did they fix this in > 11 with the default browser thing? There was much talk around the interwebs > about the browser in 11 being stuck, and it taking hours to try to figure > out how to change the default, and then once enough people figured out how > to change it, Microsoft went and fixed them so they got the Microsoft > browser back and couldn't change it anymore. This is what happens when you > let a single company with a known history of bad business control every > aspect of your computer. They can do what > t > > hey want with it, no matter how much of a power user you think you are. > > > Windows Terminal exists. They even have a Windows package manager. But > if > > > you don't like that one, you use Scoop, or Chocolatey, which also have > some > > > Linux apps and command line programs. > > > OK I'll give you that cmd is still a thing, and believe it or not, you > will find many articles around the interwebs that tell you to open up cmd > to do this or that. And I guess they've made it somewhat more useful again? > Last time I used anything like that, they were taking things away from it > to make it less useful, not adding choices to make it more usable. I pretty > much lost it when they took move away for example. > > > > > > > That's still true. But you'd just install Thunderbird wouldn't you? It > > > works even better on windows than Linux because the accessibility bus > is > > > faster to load all those messages into its buffers. > > > > > > > > Um, no. If Google Chrome is any indication, it would be slower, as it's > > loading all that stuff into buffers that are not needed and take time. > One > > banking website that I tested felt quite sluggish on a rather new > laptop. I > > can do my banking much much faster here on this 8-year-old all-in-one > > computer than I was able to do on that laptop. I felt like I was slogging > > through mud using that thing. I'm sure email in Thunderbird would be > just as > > bad. It used to feel sluggish here as well, but this has been greatly > > improved now. I no longer notice any sluggishness here, even on less > > resource packed machines, even in large folders, which I will admit used > to > > be a high pain point, not because of the accessibility bus itself, but > > because of event floods that have been largely fixed. > > > > ~Kyle > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list