Pipewire and Orca and audio

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So I'm convinced now Pipewire is doing something funky on qemu/Virtualbox. I've spun up a quick and dirty Arch system running Mate via startx. Pulse works fine but the moment I redo the install with Pipewire, Orca keels over.

So is there anything special I need to do in order to get Pipewire to play nice? I did sudo pacman -S pipewire pipewire-pulse wireplumber and am trying to go with a Pipewire and Wireplumber setup. All other audio, like YT vids, works fine, Orca just comes out as a garbled mess, so it looks at least to me like Pulse works better on my system.

Anyone else run into this with Arch or other distros using Pipewire and fiure out a solution? There's not much online really about it, just articles on oh it's a bug, or oh replace Pulse with Pipewire

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