Sorry, Joel, about getting your name wrong. I think the situation you describe will always require page numbers. That's the best referal technology available for printed books. Without page numbers we wouldn't have tables of contents or indexes. Scrolls and pre-Gutenberg manuscripts didn't have such things. They are specific to a printed and bound medium. But they won't make much sense if the context is all e, and various users are using different display characteristics. On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Joel Zimba wrote: > thanks, will read it. (and btw, thename is JOEL) > > just trying to figure out what you'd use in place of page numbers when the > printed book may be close at hand. > > I'll read the paper and find out. > > J > > -----Original Message----- > From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com > [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:48 PM > To: blinux-list@redhat.com > Subject: RE: Book Share and Linux > > > Hey, Joe! > > Actually, let me just quote myself plus George Kerscher (in our > co-authored White Paper): > > > "It is not that the traditional book is dying. Far too many > readers love printed books too much for the traditional book to > disappear from the scene. Rather, it is that electronic media are > available to convey information and stimulate the human spirit in > ways the static page cannot." > > To read this paper, which is called Surpassing Gutenberg, go to: > > http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp > PS: How sweet of you to say I'd be missed. That feels very nice. > I'll do my best to hang around! > > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Joel Zimba wrote > > > so are you envisioninng an end to the paper-publishing industry as we know > > it? > > > > better be careful, the lumberingindustry went to great lengths to stop the > > hemp-growers in the early part of this century when their paper monopoly > was > > threatened. > > > > you woulden't want to end up on their ht list... they could have you in a > > paper mill being turned into high-quality parchment in no time! > > > > we'd miss you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com > > [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka > > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:15 PM > > To: blinux-list@redhat.com > > Subject: Re: Book Share and Linux > > > > > > Paging is considered an archaic construct in DAISY. It's > > supported for legacy pbook compatibility purposes only. > > > > As it was said, students will be told to "turn to page XXX." In > > the electronic context, however, it is really as meaningless as > > it is in a pre-Gutenberg context of hand copied manuscripts and > > scrolls. > > > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, David Poehlman wrote: > > > > > yes, I find no fault with dazie and infact that would be much better > > > than rtf. You use a table of contents at the top and link it so that > > > each page is paired with one of the items i call them name and number > > > tags. You can even draw some sort of breakin lines if you like. I'm > > > sure it would not be too difficult to have duxbury recognize this. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org> > > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > > > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 2:04 PM > > > Subject: Re: Book Share and Linux > > > > > > > > > David, > > > How would you separate pages with anchor text? > > > After all, Daisy must have some means of indicating page breaks and page > > > numbers, and I think it's XML. > > > Thanks. > > > John > > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, David > > > Poehlman wrote: > > > > > > > I beg your pardon, page break info can be maintained in html. There > > > are > > > > several ways to do it two of them being to put each page on a page and > > > > to separate each page with anchor text. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org> > > > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:08 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Book Share and Linux > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > Alison's response sounds good to me. Since I run a transcription > > > > operation that produces math and science books in Braille, I am keenly > > > > aware of the importance of preserving page breaks. > > > > I hope AFS from maplefish will be adequate for editing rtf. I've been > > > so > > > > busy following this thread that I haven't tried it yet. > > > > John > > > > On Fri, 14 Jun > > > > 2002, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have forwarded some of the mail on this thread to Book Share. I > > > > > am now forwarding the response I received to this list, because I > > > > > think it both instructive and responsive to the needs of Linux > > > > > users: > > > > > > > > > > NOTE: I've edited out some personal points in the message I > > > > > received. > > > > > >From Alison@benetech.org Fri Jun 14 12:36:51 2002 > > > > > From: Alison Lingane <Alison@benetech.org> > > > > > Thanks so much for passing along the posts to us - we're glad to > > > know > > > > what > > > > > people's concerns are. > > > > > > > > > > HTML was definitely considered when we chose one format, but the > > > > drawback it > > > > > has is that it loses page break information if it is in the original > > > > file. > > > > > This is important to maintain in books, especially for students who > > > > have > > > > > assignments based on page numbers. > > > > > > > > > > To explain to you in a little more detail, the book conversion > > > process > > > > goes > > > > > like this: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Volunteer submits a file in any format > > > > > 2. Another volunteer (or staff) converts the file to RTF. We chose > > > > RTF > > > > > because it keeps as much markup information as possible, but isn't a > > > > > proprietary format, and most programs have a "save as RTF". Knowing > > > > the > > > > > answer to John's post of what files can be used with Linux to > > > > accomplish > > > > > this would be helpful. Volunteers can also re-submit as ASCII, but > > > > this > > > > > loses any markup present in the book. (If the book was submitted in > > > > ASCII, > > > > > we try to have it resubmitted in ASCII so false markup isn't added.) > > > > > 3. Our software converts RTF to the XML content file of the DAISY > > > > standard. > > > > > 4. Our automated software tools run on this XML file - quality > > > > assessment, > > > > > OCR correct, etc. > > > > > 5. Our tools then convert this XML file to DAISY, BRF (actually, we > > > > use > > > > > Duxbury for this), and in the case of public domain books, HTML and > > > > ASCII. > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully this explains things a little more, but I'm happy to > > > answer > > > > other > > > > > questions! > > > > > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > > > > http://www.chpi.org > > > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > > > http://www.chpi.org > > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > Technology Research and Development > > Governmental Relations Group > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > http://www.openebook.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.368 / Virus Database: 204 - Release Date: 5/29/2002 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Director > Technology Research and Development > Governmental Relations Group > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > http://www.openebook.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.368 / Virus Database: 204 - Release Date: 5/29/2002 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org