On 6/18/20 6:00 PM, Bardur Arantsson wrote: > On 18/06/2020 06.33, Eli Schwartz via arch-general wrote: >> You pulled this assertion out of thin air, do you have any proof that it >> "breaks more than a decade of setups"? > > OP is the one making an assertion, so the burden of proof is on them. > > That said... I suspect most the system-wide breakage that would have > been expected would be due to init scripts and systemd ameliorates that > to a large degree. The OP is sharing an assertion made by many people, that /bin/sh as dash is safe. As I've mentioned previously in the thread, there is a lot of prior art. Anything that is expected to work on multiple distros, generally should work. SysV init scripts might not work, if they were Arch-specific. Yes. That is of course no longer a concern, and the primary concern is instead system scripts, applications, frameworks, etc. which run after boot, not as part of boot. >> Note that as has already been pointed out, any setup which it breaks is >> inherently flawed, and in addition was broken on Debian, the most >> popular linux distribution by sheer numbers, as well as most non-Linux >> forms of Unix. >> > > Inherent flaws in a setup doesn't mean that shit doesn't break. Ideally, > yes, there would be no flaws, but this is the real world. > > Doubtless, we all try to strive towards perfection, but there is no such > thing in practice. That is completely beside the point. If it doesn't work on Debian, chances are someone is going to notice and fix it. :p The world is no longer a place where everyone assumes /bin/sh works like bash. Following in the footsteps of Debian in this regard is not some super dangerous endeavor. >> It's actually in practice very unlikely that this will break anyone's setup. >> >> Also if you really think Arch Linux is afraid to break people's setups, >> I suggest you reread https://www.archlinux.org/news/python-is-now-python-3/ >> > > In practice, I agree that it probably won't break much, but your > arguments largely don't hold water. I've provided rationale why I don't believe it will break much, you *agree* with me, and yet you say my arguments don't hold water? -- Eli Schwartz Bug Wrangler and Trusted User
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