Well... Given the action taken by some developers in this thread, I can't imagine what will happen if we take this issue to the maintainer privately. I understand there is no insult intention by everyine, but by using that word, it IS offending. I am not asking everyone to be educated about our history nor asking everyone to understand, and that is exactly the reason why I provided so many references in my post. To help people get a quick concept of what our demand is and to know how other communities and company did about this. That being said, let's continue to have a constructive conversation. :) I don't think that a country name can be easily defined by a so-called standard. A country's name should be decided by its people or, at least, the local authority. Open the Taiwan official website in English, you will see we actually called Republic of China, or a more common and neutral word, Taiwan[1]. There are many authorities data listed us as Taiwan as well, like the CIA world book[2]. We are not the only country being affected by this false standard. See the Rails reference in my original post or Yao-Wei's mail for more information. I think Yao-Wei's idea of using common names is good. [1] http://www.taiwan.gov.tw/mp.asp?mp=999 [2] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tw.html ArchLinux is a user-centric system defined in the Arch Way, so please at least take our opinion seriously. Don't reject it on the first sight by just saying we're following a standard. Thanks. On Monday, July 2, 2012, Leonid Isaev <lisaev@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 15:49:46 -0400 > Loui Chang <louipc.ist@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> On Sun 01 Jul 2012 21:23 +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote: >> > On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Loui Chang <louipc.ist@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > > On Sun 01 Jul 2012 23:08 +0800, Zero, Chien-An Cho wrote: >> > >> Hello, >> > >> >> > >> First of all, I am sorry to bring political issues to here. I have >> > >> been using ArchLinux for years, deployed on many servers, though I'm >> > >> not joining the community until now. The recent changes to the >> > >> ArchLinux webpages (ex. Downloads, Mirror Status) is really offending >> > >> Taiwanese people. I would like to bring up this issue, and preferably >> > >> to resolve this issue. >> > >> >> > >> I have posted this message on the forum: >> > >> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=144315 . The moderator >> > >> suggested me to post on arch-general, so here it is. :) >> > >> There is also a bug tracking issue submitted by other Taiwanese user >> > >> that I'm requesting for reopen here: >> > >> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/30444 >> > >> >> > >> The following text is the same as the post on forum, except a few >> > >> modification to make text smoother. >> > >> >> > >> The recent changes on the download page named Taiwan as Taiwan, >> > >> Province of China, which is not reflecting the truth that Taiwan is a >> > >> independent country which having its own government. I think this >> > >> might be caused by following the ISO-3166 country name list standard. >> > >> However, I don't think ISO-3166 is a good list when it comes to the >> > >> country name. >> > >> >> > >> Many open source communities have encountered this problem before. >> > >> Most of them understand that ISO-3166 is not really a neutral list >> > >> that we all hope for, and thus made switch to a separate maintained >> > >> country list. For example, FreeBSD[1], Rails[2], Debian[3]. Many big >> > >> commercial entities also opt not to use "Taiwan, PRC" in their country >> > >> list, like: Apple[4], IBM[5], also try Google, Facebook, Twitter, et >> > >> cetra. A possible solution might be using the country name list from >> > >> ICU[6]. >> > >> >> > >> I believed the ArchLinux is trying to expand its user-base around the >> > >> world, so a neutral country name list would be the best for the >> > >> benefit of all of us, ArchLinux developers and users. As a Taiwanese >> > >> ArchLinux user, I'm really happy to see that user base of ArchLinux is >> > >> growing in Taiwan. Some educational institutions provide mirrors site >> > >> in Taiwan, Wiki localized in Traditional Chinese in the recent years. >> > >> I sincerely hope this issue can be resolved as soon as possible. Let's >> > >> keep the issue simple and not flaming it, thanks. >> > >> >> > >> References: >> > >> >> > >> [1] FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=138672 >> > >> [2] Rails: >> > >> http://www.koziarski.net/archives/2008/9/24/countries-and-controversies/ >> > >> [3] Debian: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/04/msg00798.html >> > >> [4] Apple: http://www.apple.com/choose-your-country/ [5] IBM: >> > >> http://www.ibm.com/planetwide/select/selector.html [6] ICU: >> > >> http://source.icu-project.org/repos/icu/icu/trunk/source/data/region/en.txtPleasenote that noone here means any disrespect to citizens of Taiwan or > other any country. But also not everyone is well educated in other countries' > history (especially such fine-grained as that of Taiwan), nor does said > education have highest priority. > > While many people understand that Province of China may sound offensive and > certainly everyone recognizes Taiwan's sovereignty, you have to keep in mind > that for a vast majority of users there is a little distinction between all > the names Taiwan has been given by UN/ISO/... -- those are just designations. > > Therefore, taking this discussion to a public ML is educative and pointless as > it will only feed the trolls (as you can already see). If you really feel like > you have to, report the issue personally to the site maintainer or the project > leader. > >> >> But as has been suggested maybe Arch should choose a different upstream >> for this kind of information. Please open your mind a little, a false >> standard is no standard at all. >> > > > > -- > Leonid Isaev > GnuPG key: 0x164B5A6D > Fingerprint: C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D > -- Best Regards, Zero, Chien-An Cho
