Having a bit more time to think now, to the OP, if this discussion hasn't scared you off, ask me for my device switching script, am not at my laptop now. And for Heiko.... On Jun 15, 2012 9:23 PM, "Heiko Baums" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > I haven't tried using the latest PA for a couple of weeks, because I've > got an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96. And this is one of those > (semi-)professional audio cards which are not supported by PA. So, yes, > I have made my experiences. > > It's not a personal crusade, and it's not bashing. It's just my > personal experiences with PA, which totally doesn't work with my audio > card. That load of drivel below isn't bashing? You refer to fanboys and proceed to list a whole loss of statements not made by anyone in this thread. And then you insist that for pulse to be standard it must conform to your standards, which by the way something like cups also fails. Man, I can't believe my office photocopier can't print out stapled copies using cups, it shouldn't be called a standard until it can do that.... Not to mention the multiple times you assume that pulse is being forced on everyone just because it's a dependency of some software. May as well complain how X is being forced on everyone. You, sir, are a troll. > > The problems that I have in those discussions, why I "bash" it (as you > call it), are those: > > 1. PA may work with some certain sound cards (only consumer sound > cards), but not with every sound and audio card. Still it always gets > hyped as the ultimate sound server by the PA fanboys, which allegedly > solves every problem and question. But unfortunately those fanboys are > usually only those users who only know their own SoundBlaster or AC'97 > onboard sound card and simply ignore the fact that there are some > other, more professional audio cards. So they think if PA works for > them, it has to work for everybody else, which is totally wrong. > > 2. Those PA fanboys ignore the fact, that PA indeed is an additional > layer which can indeed cause additional issues, which make it harder to > find the real reason for those issues. > > 3. Even the PA developers blame ALSA, which works perfectly with those > more professional audio cards out-of-the-box, for the bugs in PA, even > if it was clear that it is PA's fault. > > 4. The PA developers try to having made PA to a new de facto > Linux standard - that's at least my impression -, even if it doesn't > support every sound and audio card. From a de facto Linux standard it > can be expected that it supports every hardware of that kind. Until > this is not the case it just has to be called crap, if it's treated as a > standard. > > 5. It's somehow related to 4. At least the GNOME developers and some > distribution developers force the users to install PA as a dependency > of GNOME or the whole distro. This probably isn't a problem for those > PA fanboys with some consumer cards. But it is a very big problem for > people who own a better sound or audio card, which doesn't work with > PA. Those people not only want but even need a working sound output. > > 6. The PA fanboys always answer every sound related question by > suggesting to install PA, regardless of the question and if the problem > can be easily solved in other ways. > > 7. The PA fanboys seem to be persuaded that PA doesn't have and never > will have any bugs. > > 8. PA is just overrated regarding its features. Maybe there are use > cases for PA, maybe it can make some things a bit easier for some > people. But it's in most cases not necessary as some PA fanboys are > always claiming. > > And this is not bashing. Those are just facts. > > If PA would be treated as a normal and optional piece of software which > can be installed or not, and if it would not be treated as a de facto > Linux standard, and if the users would not be forced to install PA as a > dependency, I would have absolutely no problem with PA. > > But as long as the situation is as I described above, you always will > read such comments, if someone mentions PA. > > Either PA has to support every sound and audio card incl. the > (semi-)professional audio cards as they are meant to be used (not > crippled down to stereo cards) or PA has to be removed as a dependency > from every desktop environment and distro. > > And the PA fanboys should consider if it's really necessary to install > PA to solve a problem or to answer a question, or if there are easier > ways (in user friendlyness and in KISS). And they should ask before, if > PA would even make sense for the questioner. > > That's the point. > > Heiko
