Hi .. Well getting almost back to rights now but i now have no audio using an external usb soundcard that was working fine before the KDE update wreaked havoc Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0d8c:0102 C-Media Electronics, Inc. CM106 Like Sound Device Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.10 bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level) bDeviceSubClass 0 bDeviceProtocol 0 bMaxPacketSize0 8 idVendor 0x0d8c C-Media Electronics, Inc. idProduct 0x0102 CM106 Like Sound Device bcdDevice 0.10 iManufacturer 0 iProduct 2 USB Sound Device iSerial 0 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: i dare not include the entire output way too long i have been thru the Pulse Audio Volume Control Pulse Audio Preferences KDE System setting multimedia in the PAVC i can actually see the bar moving with the audio everything seems ok just no sound the speakers/amps are ok not sure where to look next Pete . -- Powered by Kernel: 3.2.2-1-ARCH KDE Development Platform: 4.8.00 (4.8.0 00:31:20 up 56 min, 3 users, load average: 0.09, 0.09, 0.13