Uhmm, let see.. you are a frash F/O with J.O's lovely airline that pays from wheels up to wheels down time (not from push back to parking break set) and you get LGA as a base. At $15/hr and 75 hrs guarantee you make about $1400/month before taxes including per diems and some extra flying you pick up. Your schedule is 5 on 2 off. Your contract says that you have to be at your flight in 1 hour of the call on reserve. They don't have a commuting clause.. I think this makes the "crash pad" a necessity not a convenience. A friend of mine who joined CoEx several years ago had to borrow money to pay his rent in the first year. His is one of the best paying regionals.. Don't give me the crap of "airline pilots are making huge money, they should take a pay cut" .. If you told me that you know jack about this industry. You cannot survive on airlines first or second year pay on your own. Period.. People who are doing it are doing it thanks to wife/hubby or mom and dad.. ----- Original Message ---- From: Roger LaFrance <lafrance@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 5:32:46 AM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest Crash pads are more of a convenience than a economical issue. Allan9 <exatc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Crash pads existed in the 1960s. Can't blame todays economic salary conditions. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "RWM" To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest > Couldn't afford Danish at those levels of income! And the food stamps for > which those incomes qualify don't cover Danish anyway. > > States prescribe different levels, reflecting regional/local cost of > living. Try being a NYC-based reserve FA or pilot at those wages, > explaining why 'crash pads' exist. > > Mike Bloomberg reluctantly agrees that $32,000 - NYPD salary after 6 > months - is barely making it (but blames it on NYPD salary negotiators). > > > > David MR wrote: > >>Checking the web, I found the following: >>Federal proverty level for 2005: >>Family Size/Annual wages >>1/$9,570 >>2/$12,830 >>3/$16,090 >>4/$19,350 >> >>Median starting flight attendant pay $15,552 >>(http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos171.htm) >>Average starting pilot pay: $14,137. >>(http://www.avjobs.com/table/airsalry.asp) >>Though both are low, neither of these are below the proverty level for a >>family of 1 or 2. >>David R >>Buy Danish >> >>-------------- Original message -------------- >>From: Allan9 >> >>>Alireza >>>Maybe we need to clarify what you describe as near the poverty level. >>>What do you feel describes that level for pliots and F/As. What do you >>>feel is "fair"?" >>>Now I realize you have a horse in the race but to be fair in discussing >>>the reasonableness of the offer I for one would like to know? >>>My horse put out to stud back in 1994. So I've been gone for awhile. Been >>>a long time since mutual aid days Al >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:09 PM >>>Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest >>> >>> >>>>Rickenbacker. You missed Howard Hughes in that one. I disagree that >>>>union offers at this point are to be considered unreasonable. F/A's now >>>>live down near the poverty line. The legacies have kept on outsourcing >>>>express flying to airlines that pay pilots below the poverty line, even >>>>when any simple economic analysis can show that they are losing money on >>>>non-turbo prop express flying and would be better off paying more in >>>>wages to fly it themselves. These aren't the days of "Delta + 1 or >>>>United + 1". >>>> >>>>In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:00:50 AM Central Standard Time, >>>>damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: Both are to be blamed. Unions because of >>>>their unreasonable offers Management because they are bean counters and >>>>view Northwest as just another business. They are not like the great >>>>airline CEO's of the past such as Six, Frye, Trippe, Rickenbecker (sp?), >>>>etc. >>>> Roger & Amanda La France