A thought-experiment view of this would be 'what if UA/AA/etc built their own 30 or 40 gate airport in <pick your market>'. Is that a bad thing? And haven't the bonds for DFW construction been paid off for at least fifteen years now? On Nov 16, 2004, at 17:01, Allan9 wrote: > Dave the one point you may be missing was when DFW was built the Wright > Ammendment was put in place to force all the airlines to go to DFW. > The > locals (politicians) had to pay their share of the matching funds in > order > to pay for the airports' construction. They felt if one (major) carrier > refused to go to DFW then others would follow suit and the airport > would not > be finiancially feasible. > So along came the Wright Ammendment basically forcing them to do it. > We > tend to forget that when the concept was created Dallas Air Carrier > traffic > was no where near what it is today. Denver took the same approach > after > seeing what Dallas did. > Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David MR" <damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: "The Airline List" <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Allan9" > <exatc@xxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:03 PM > Subject: RE: Southwest seeing how the wind blows > > >> Al, Clay, >> >> DAL, by city regulation, is limited to 32 gates. There are currently >> 16 >> gates in use. >> >> Although DAL use to have 747 service (Braniff between DAL/HNL), I >> don't >> see >> DAL getting very large aircraft. I see more narrow bodies operating >> frequent flights to business destinations such as NYC, LA, SF, and >> Chicago. >> This is in addition to the current short-haul flights to neighboring >> states >> and within the state of Texas. >> >> I think the Wright Amendment was wrong from day 1. There's no reason >> why >> a >> large metropolitan area should not have 2 (or more) airports with >> airline >> operations. On a similar subject, it was wrong for Denver to close >> Stapleton when International opened. The former would be more >> convenient >> for short haul flights while the latter could do the long haul. After >> all, >> does it make sense to take a 1 or 1.5 hour flight only to have >> another 1 >> or >> so to get to your destination after the flight arrives? >> >> David >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/airlinediscussion/ - an alternative to >> the >> Airline List at CUNY - a list where the moderator actually moderates >> and >> it >> is okay to have differing opinions without being subjected to >> moderation >> by >> a moderator who doesn't moderate his own list >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of >> Allan9 >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:37 >> To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Southwest seeing how the wind blows >> >> >> To strt with I am in favor of repealing the Wright restrictions. >> However, >> questions I have is what is the additional markets they could serve. >> The >> longest runway reportedly is 8800 feet. I don't think there is >> sufficient >> distance between runway centerlines to allow simultaneous ILS >> approaches. >> The traffic flows would appear to conflict with the appraoches into >> DFW. >> I've seen what can happen and the resultant restrictions (ORD/MDW). >> There >> are only about 30-32 gates atl DAL and over half are now in use. >> Reportedly >> there is no room for expansion of the terminal or runways. So as I >> see it >> you probably could add about 15 flights per hour (maybe). Just for >> the >> sake >> of discussion. TDo a Google search on Dallas Love Master Plan. I >> did a >> quick scan of it. >> >> Al >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Clay Wardlow" <clay.wardlow@xxxxxxxx> >> To: "Allan9" <exatc@xxxxxxxxxx>; "The Airline List" >> <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:42 PM >> Subject: RE: Southwest seeing how the wind blows >> >> >> Al, >> >> Yes, sorry. DMN = Dallas Morning News, it's the only Dallas newspaper. >> >> There were quite a few people leaving comments on the "What do you >> think" section. I'd say 99% of them were infavor or repealing the >> Wright >> amendment. >> >> I whole-heartedly agree. However, I would like to understand the other >> side. Does DFW really believe that Love poses a threat? Can >> 30-something >> gates really treaten 141+ gates? >> >> DFW is usually around the 3-busiest airport in the world. How is >> letting >> little ol' Love out of the Write amendment really going to hurt DFW? >> >> Clay - formerly of DFW >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Allan9 [mailto:exatc@xxxxxxxxxx] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:19 AM >> To: The Airline List; Clay Wardlow >> Subject: Re: Southwest seeing how the wind blows >> >> Clay >> Pardon my dumb question but what is DMN? >> Dallas Morning News? >> Al >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Clay Wardlow" <clay.wardlow@xxxxxxxx> >> To: <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:51 AM >> Subject: Re: Southwest seeing how the wind blows >> >> >> I've been reading the comments by people left on the DMN. Everyone >> seems >> very passionate about repealing the Write amendment. >> >> >> >> Is there any reason to keep it? >> >> >> >> Clay - SEA >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Clay Wardlow >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:44 AM >> To: Airline List >> Subject: Southwest seeing how the wind blows >> >> >> >> http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/ >> 111604dnbussouth >> west.67342.html >> >> >> >> Southwest Airlines Co. signaled Monday that it intends to watch the >> political reaction to its newfound opposition to flight restrictions >> at >> Dallas Love Field before mounting any campaign to remove them. >> >> The Dallas-based discounter wants to hear from a variety of >> constituencies interested in repealing the Wright amendment, the >> federal >> law that limits flights from the airport to Texas and nearby states. >> >> "We are waiting to hear how people respond," said Ron Ricks, senior >> vice >> president for law, airports and public policy at Southwest, in an >> interview at the carrier's headquarters at Love Field. >> >> On Friday, Southwest chief executive Gary Kelly sent up an unexpected >> flare in a battle that began decades ago but has been dormant until >> the >> last few months. In a speech before area executives, he denounced the >> 1979 statute as "anti-competitive." >> >> So far, Mr. Kelly's comments have drawn negative reactions from >> officials at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, American >> Airlines >> Inc., and city halls in Dallas and Fort Worth. >> >> All cited concerns that opening Love Field to long-haul flights would >> pose a critical challenge to the health of D/FW, an economic engine to >> North Texas. >> >> But several prominent area lawmakers have welcomed a renewed >> discussion >> of the Wright amendment. >> >> Mr. Ricks said he has received supportive calls from the offices of >> three lawmakers, including Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan. He declined to >> name the other two but said one is from Texas. >> >> Many area travelers have also voiced their opposition to the >> restrictions that allow airlines to fly non-stop from Love Field only >> within an area that includes Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, New >> Mexico, Kansas, Alabama and Mississippi. >> >> Mr. Ricks said Southwest officials reconsidered their neutral position >> on the Wright amendment after rival Delta Air Lines Inc. said in >> September it was pulling its hub at D/FW. That left Southwest with >> three >> choices: >> >> * Do nothing, and watch somebody else fill the vacuum. >> >> * Pick up the slack at D/FW. >> >> * Expand at Love Field. >> >> "We don't want to do nothing," Mr. Ricks said. "That's not Southwest's >> M.O." >> >> After careful consideration Southwest ruled out going to D/FW, because >> it knew that airport's biggest tenant, American, would pull out all >> the >> stops to protect its home turf, Mr. Ricks said. >> >> What's more, he said, moving flights to D/FW would cannibalize the >> airline's successful Love Field operation. >> >> It made more sense to bolster Love, which suffered more than most >> airports from the September 2001 terrorist attacks because it relies >> entirely on shorter flights, many of which can be replaced by car >> trips, >> he said. >> >> An unrestricted Love Field would also be good for Dallas, Mr. Ricks >> said, because more long-haul flights could bolster the city's economy >> and convention business. >> >> He also noted several times that Southwest is the fifth-biggest >> taxpayer >> in the city of Dallas because it pays property taxes on its entire >> fleet >> of Boeing jets. >> >> "If business is down at Love Field, business is down in Dallas," Mr. >> Ricks said. >> >> The Texas congressional delegation, which is likely to play a central >> role in any Wright repeal effort, had a mixed reaction last week to >> Mr. >> Kelly's remarks. >> >> Republican Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Dallas, >> said they were willing to consider the matter. Rep. Joe Barton, >> R-Ennis, >> said he opposes it. Republican Sen. John Cornyn said he needs more >> time >> to think about it. >> >> Support from out-of-state lawmakers could also prove key if Midwestern >> and Southern states, driven by a desire for more low-fare Southwest >> flights, fight hard for them in Congress. >> >> Even as he reiterated that the airline didn't have a campaign planned, >> Mr. Ricks rattled off reasons a repeal made sense and wouldn't hurt >> D/FW. >> >> Topping the list was a city master plan that restricts to 32 the >> number >> of gates that airlines can operate at Love Field. Today, only 16 are >> in >> operation. D/FW has 138 gates. >> >> Love Field "will never grow to a point where it will threaten D/FW >> Airport," Mr. Ricks said. >> >> But that argument didn't fly with D/FW or Fort Worth-based American. >> >> "We think the Wright amendment has helped ensure the success of D/FW, >> and we believe it's still relevant today," said Tim Wagner, an >> American >> spokesman. >> >> D/FW worries that repealing the Wright amendment would bring a repeat >> of >> 2000, when American and Delta added new service at Love Field to >> compete >> against Legend Airlines. >> >> "We earnestly believe, and history has shown, that many other airlines >> would try to get in to compete head-to-head with Southwest at a >> close-in >> airport," said Kevin Cox, D/FW's chief operating officer. >> >> If Love Field grew to its limit, D/FW estimates, the city airport >> could >> attract millions of passengers who would otherwise use the nation's >> third-busiest airport. >> >> "Southwest is doing this to protect its monopolistic control over Love >> Field and not bring in added competition to the Dallas-Fort Worth >> marketplace," Mr. Cox said. >> >> He called the airline's approach "caustic and divisive." >> >> Southwest had its own criticisms. >> >> The city of Fort Worth, which avows loyalty to D/FW, has, over the >> years, asked Southwest to add service at Fort Worth Meacham Airport, >> and >> the cargo hub, Alliance Airport, Mr. Ricks said. >> >> "They said quite specifically Meacham Field is not subject to the >> Wright >> amendment, you can fly from Meacham," Mr. Ricks said. "What I find >> ironic is that when we talk about flying out of Love Field they say we >> are going to hurt D/FW." >> >> Fort Worth City Manager Charles Boswell said his city has approached >> Southwest about starting service from its airport, but he said he >> doesn't recall any discussion about interstate flights or service from >> Alliance. >> >> >> >> >> >> Clay Wardlow | Technical Publications | ADIC <http://www.adic.com/> | >> Redmond, WA | 425-897-7448 >> --- >> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 11/8/2004 >> >> --- >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 11/8/2004 >> >>