This is what happened to a cargo bird out of Mather airport (Sacramento) 3-4 years ago, they had lifted off the ground, made a left turn, 180 degrees and went down in a auto wrecking yard next to the airport (Old AFB), the load on board WAS NOT TIED DOWN ! BOB FLETCHER US ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS MILITARY DESIGN SECTION 10th FLOOR S.W. SACRAMENTO DISTRICT 1325 J STREET, SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA, 95814-2922 Phone (916) 557-7235 -----Original Message----- From: David M Knies [mailto:david@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:04 AM To: Skyone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [Sky-1] 747F crash Halifax - Star Report Liam, Well, of course. I was not impling that "You" we missing something, just making a point in general. Hopefully, they can figure it out shortly and keep it from happening again. You'd think after Fine Air, etc -- they'd learn -- LOCK THE DAMN CARGO DOWN! :) David On Oct 15, 2004, at 1:09 AM, Liam Tully wrote: Of course David. "I" understand that. However, when "Mr. & Mrs. Joe Six Pack" read the wire service reports about a "spare crew" being on board, they will assume every 747/"huge jet", has a "Motel" on board with a "spare crew", just in case something goes awry. You know what I mean....eh? AND of COURSE, we have no idea whatsoever about crew duty time, limitations, previous trips, future trips, crew rest etc. All that will be determined by the investigators. At this point in time, the cause of the crash is pure speculation on everybody's part - more so the media - rather than anyone on this particular list. Did I mention the CNN report???? It was datelined "ACCRA" - need I say more? BTW, at least one senior Manager from MK arrived YHZ PM 14OCT, so no doubt we will hear more up to date info in the day's ahead, as it continues to be a big news item with wreckage off the end of the runway. Liam. YVR. ----- Original Message ----- From: David M. Knies To: Skyone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Sky-1] 747F crash Halifax - Star Report Well, keep in mind --- you are probably correct. However, we don't know what the crew's daily duty time looked like. If they'd been been flying long - they might have been required to have reliefs for legal reasons and/or insurance ones. DMK On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Liam Tully wrote: > Hi David. > > Why would any ANY carrier require a > "3x relief flight crew" to be on board a trip > such as this? After all, BDL-ZAZ, via YHZ > is not exactly what I would call "long haul" > by any means. IMO, 4 were operating, incl. > the Loadmaster and 3 were "deadheading". > Of course that's the way EYE see it, until > such time as we hear otherwise from the > investigation team. > > Liam. > YVR. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Mueller > To: Skyone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Sky-1] 747F crash Halifax - Star Report > > > Ubicon wrote: > > Why would a 747F be carrying a crew of 7? > > Boeing 747-200 has a 3 person cockpit... > > 3x primary flight crew > 3x relief flight crew > 1x loadmaster > > -- > David Mueller / MRY > dmueller7@xxxxxxxxx > http://www.quanterium.com > > > SkyOne--The Airline News Channel To Post message: Skyone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To Subscribe: Skyone-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To Unsubscribe: Skyone-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx List owner: Skyone-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Skyone URL: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Skyone SkyOne--The Airline News Channel To Post message: Skyone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To Subscribe: Skyone-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To Unsubscribe: Skyone-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx List owner: Skyone-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Skyone URL: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Skyone Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT <f2_free2_300x250_def_0904.gif> <l.gif> Yahoo! Groups Links ? To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Skyone/ ? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Skyone-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ? Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. David M. Knies President, CEO Knies Aviation, Inc. PO Box 14201 Huntsville, AL 35815 (256) 658-7475 (256) 882-1485 Fax david@xxxxxxxxx "The Sky Is Not The Limit.....The Ground Is....." CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this communication, including attachments is privileged and confidential. It is intended only for the exclusive use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify us by telephone immediately at 256-658-7475. Thank you.