For the most part if you take two things loosing money because they can't slash labor costs, can't re-negotiate fuel contracts, and have inherently bad structures... combining them into one won't make it better. It's not as if that the combination of any of the majors will allow it to get to a critical size where they gain some benefit.... they are all of a reasonable size where they should have achieved those benefits. If anything, I think the only thing that might save them is carving these beasts up. Air Canada did this, and announced "carvings" they never actually executed on (i.e. cargo, holiday-charter.) AC has made it by efficiently dividing up the business, forcing each unit to behave like a complete business in many cases with the intent to sell it! (Mainline, Zip, Tango, Aeroplan, AC Tech Services, Destina.) What happened is that AC managed to 'repatriate' the best parts (i.e. equalizing Zip and mainline labor rates.) They also got a strong capital injection, a strong direction on what AC wanted to be in the future, and rapid action. Looking back, AC's Milton and Rovinescu (departed April 2004) managed to pull the jet out of the tailspin, now let's see if they can fly it. Matthew On 17-Sep-04, at 3:42 PM, Fletcher, Robert SPK wrote: > Bill, Is there a listing of airlines in this condition of bankruptcy, > and a > list of those NOT in this situation? I am speaking of the major > companies. > There was a hint yesterday of a possible merger of 2-3 airlines on this > list, and I mentioned it sounded like the RR mergers in UPRR, That > being how > WP, MP,C&NW,MKT, and SP railroads were at one time or another, came > under > the roof of Union Pacific Railroad. Would this be a way to solve all > the > major problems the different airlines are having, or are the unions > too hard > to deal with? Collect ivy, Could these airlines survive that way with > a > merger? I would like to hear some other theories on this, Thanks in > Advance, Bob > > BOB FLETCHER > US ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS > MILITARY DESIGN SECTION > 10th FLOOR S.W. > SACRAMENTO DISTRICT > 1325 J STREET, SACRAMENTO > CALIFORNIA, 95814-2922 > Phone (916) 557-7235 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Hough [mailto:psa188@xxxxxxxx] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:49 PM > To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: SFGate: Bankruptcy filing says United needs to cut $500 > million > more in costs > > > =20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This article was sent to you by someone who found it on SFGate. > The original article can be found on SFGate.com here: > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=3D/news/archive/2004/ > 09/17/f= > inancial0847EDT0020.DTL > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Friday, September 17, 2004 (AP) > Bankruptcy filing says United needs to cut $500 million more in costs > > > > (09-17) 09:35 PDT CHICAGO (AP) -- > United Airlines, in a bankruptcy court filing in advance of a status > hearing Friday, has revealed it needs to cut $500 million more in costs > than previously stated. > The disclosure, filed Thursday, was not mentioned during a > previously > scheduled hearing Friday morning before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Eugene > Wedoff. > "In light of sharp increases in fuel prices and the persisting > weakness = > in > yields, there is no hiding from the unpleasant reality that, to secure > exit financing not guaranteed by the (Air Transportation Stabilization > Board), the company believes that it will require hundreds of millions > of > dollars in additional cost reductions -- indeed, in the neighborhood of > $500 million," the filing said. > United has not decided where the additional money will be found, > spokesm= > an > Jeff Green said. > The cuts would come on top of $600 million in cost savings that the > company announced two weeks ago. The job cuts and outsourcing in > maintenance and airport operations would save closer to $655 million, > chief executive Glenn Tilton told an aviation group Thursday. > A union representative said he was not aware of the additional > cuts, or = > if > they would affect workers. United has about 62,000 employees, down from > more than 100,000 three years ago. > "We haven't been advised of any new cost-cutting programs by United > Airlines," said Joseph Tiberi, a spokesman for the International > Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. > In its filing, United also outlined ways in which it planned to > keep in > closer touch with its unions. The carrier said it is willing to work > with > its unions to "stress test" its belief that employees' pension plans > would > need to be terminated. > United angered its employees when, desperate to conserve cash, it > stopped > contributions to its pension plans and then said in August that the > funds > likely will be terminated as it seeks to attract financing. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Copyright 2004 AP