Al, Well, I myself, do not know the minute-by-minute operations of the flight crews. The thing that I know is my friend has told me that there are (on an average) 4 flights a day out of here (not a hub for this airline) that are delayed because the flight attendants, and gate agents cannot clean the plane because that's some union's job. So there everyone sits, waiting for the unioned person to get there. I just think that in unfortinuate, and ineffecient. I didn't mean for this to be an anti/pro-union discussion. Like I said before, I have another friend that works for F9 that got into some trouble for not precisly following a procedure regarding money collected from sales of liquor during flight. In this case she really needed someone there from a union so she didn't get screwed, like she did. Because, only one or two FA's actually precisly follow that procedure. So pretty much someone was out to get her. In that case a union would have been great! And she will be voting for a union next time it comes out for a vote. My issue is when unions get in the way of running a successful business for it's customers, and for it's workers. I think that is counter to what the union's are supposed to be doing. If a flight attendent wants to help clean the plane to get it ready faster, by all means they should be able to do that. That's all. :-) Clay in SEA -----Original Message----- From: Allan9 [mailto:exatc@xxxxxxxxxx]=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:18 PM To: The Airline List; Clay Wardlow Subject: Re: Speaking of Unions Clay If were talking the flight deck crew when would they have time to perform their pre-flight briefings as required by FAR and their Company Operations Manual? I can't speak to the flight attendents because I'm not that familar with their required duties (Preboard) Al ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Clay Wardlow" <clay.wardlow@xxxxxxxx> To: <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Speaking of Unions I'm sorry Baha, it is that simple If the duties of the flight crew are finished, they should be able to help clean the plane to get it off on-time. Period. In the case of the airline where my friend works, he says, a lot of the time every one there is standing around doing nothing while the plane is not being cleaned. So everyone else is ready to go, but they can't and the plane is late. Situations like this should not exist. Clay - SEA -----Original Message----- From: Bahadir Acuner [mailto:bahadiracuner@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 7:33 AM Subject: Re: Speaking of Unions Clay, It is not that simple. People are playing Monday morning qbs in terms of how to run an airline. If you are shooting for a quick turn around 20-30 minutes let's say the job of flight attendants and pilots doesn't end when they open the door at the gate. Pilots do have a lot of paperwork duties that they have to complete post flight and a lot more to finish for the next flight. In this day and age they are even having hard time going into the terminal and getting something to eat. That becomes very crucial when you are flying 4-5 legs a day. Same goes with flight attendants, they have to greet the pax , they have to deal with catering, doing safety checks.. So, yes it would be nice for all those people to clean the airplanes, but it shouldn't be in expense of the other duties that they have.. BAHA Fan of sensible work environment.. -----Original Message----- From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Clay Wardlow Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 7:21 AM To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Speaking of Unions My original gripe about this union stuff is this: The plane is ready to be cleaned for the next group of pax, the flight crew is ready, and the gate crew is ready to start boarding. Everyone's waiting around for the union people to get there to clean the plane. If the flight crew decides to help out to get the plane out on-time, the union files a grievance because non-union people were doing union work. That makes no sense to me. Zero. Let's all work for the greater good, people. Planes get off on-time helps over-all performance of the company. It's not that hard to figure out. Clay in SEA -----Original Message----- From: Allan9 [mailto:exatc@xxxxxxxxxx]=3D20 Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Speaking of Unions 3-9-5. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION Takeoff clearance needs not be withheld until prescribed separation exists if there is a reasonable assurance it will exist when the aircraft starts takeoff roll. 3-9-6. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION Separate a departing aircraft from a preceding departing or arriving aircraft using the same runway by ensuring that it does not begin takeoff roll until: a. The other aircraft has departed and crossed the runway end or turned to avert any conflict. If you can determine distances by reference to suitable landmarks, the other aircraft needs only be airborne if the following minimum distance exists between aircraft: (See FIG 3-9-1 and FIG 3-9-2.) 1. When only Category I aircraft are involved- 3,000 feet. 2. When a Category I aircraft is preceded by a Category II aircraft- 3,000 feet. 3. When either the succeeding or both are Category II aircraft- 4,500 feet. 4. When either is a Category III aircraft- 6,000 feet.