<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV> <P>who the fuck cares and don't send me this shit again!!!!!!!!!! I'm tired of assholes like you getting my email address and wasting my fucking time!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>Don't send mail to me again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR><BR></P></DIV> <DIV></DIV><BR><BR><BR>Michael Gomez <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>-------------------------------------- <DIV></DIV>"There's a great big beautiful tomorrow shining at the end of every day" <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>From: Matthew Montano <MMONTANO@DIRECT.CA> <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: The Airline List <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>, Matthew Montano <MMONTANO@DIRECT.CA> <DIV></DIV>>To: AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: NYTimes.com Article: Tension Mounts Between United and Machinists <DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:41:42 -0800 <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>If I recall correctly it was a combination of the Government of Canada <DIV></DIV>>and the unions. Between the government imposing onerous constraints on <DIV></DIV>>C3M and the stubborn unions, the executive of C3 based said "F*&^ It" <DIV></DIV>>and shut the whole thing down and left town. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>I think it was a combination of screwed up Federal policy (it's still <DIV></DIV>>screwed up), and the union "you OWE me a good paying job" mentality <DIV></DIV>>that brought C3 to it's knees. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>I saw an "outlet" store last weekend in Richmond BC selling a bunch of <DIV></DIV>>"Royal Airlines" headsets, selling for $1.99/each. I could only think <DIV></DIV>>of David Collenette, our blessed Canadian Federal Transport Minister. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Matthew <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 04:47 PM, Mark wrote: <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> > Perhaps someone should remind United's machinists that is was the <DIV></DIV>> > unions at <DIV></DIV>> > Canada 3000 that held out on concessions and how many flights a day <DIV></DIV>> > are they <DIV></DIV>> > operating? <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > ----- Original Message ----- <DIV></DIV>> > From: "Bill Hough" <PSA188@JUNO.COM> <DIV></DIV>> > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> <DIV></DIV>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:36 AM <DIV></DIV>> > Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Tension Mounts Between United and <DIV></DIV>> > Machinists <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >> This article from NYTimes.com <DIV></DIV>> >> has been sent to you by psa188@juno.com. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Tension Mounts Between United and Machinists <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> December 4, 2002 <DIV></DIV>> >> By EDWARD WONG with STEVEN GREENHOUSE <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> CHICAGO, Dec. 3 - Executives and union leaders of United <DIV></DIV>> >> Airlines stepped up their pressure on United's mechanics <DIV></DIV>> >> today, seeking their approval of a $700 million package of <DIV></DIV>> >> wage and benefit concessions that the airline says could <DIV></DIV>> >> help it avoid bankruptcy court. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> The mechanics' vote is scheduled for Thursday, and so much <DIV></DIV>> >> hostility toward management runs through the shop floors at <DIV></DIV>> >> United that many mechanics say the outcome is uncertain. If <DIV></DIV>> >> the mechanics reverse course from their vote a week ago and <DIV></DIV>> >> approve the concessions, many say, it will be by only a <DIV></DIV>> >> narrow margin. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> United Airlines also announced plans today to lay off 220 <DIV></DIV>> >> pilots in early January and 132 in early February, reducing <DIV></DIV>> >> the total to about 8,250, and to cut senior management <DIV></DIV>> >> ranks by 18 percent, to 36 senior managers. Glenn F. <DIV></DIV>> >> Tilton, the chief executive, said that the remaining <DIV></DIV>> >> managers would take an average annual pay cut of 11 percent <DIV></DIV>> >> over the airline's planned five-and-a-half year recovery <DIV></DIV>> >> period and would forgo merit and incentive bonuses this <DIV></DIV>> >> year. The management savings would total more than $60 <DIV></DIV>> >> million, he said. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Those announcements came as Mr. Tilton ratcheted up his own <DIV></DIV>> >> participation in the campaign to sway the votes of the <DIV></DIV>> >> mechanics. He signed a letter sent to every mechanic and <DIV></DIV>> >> then flew from United's headquarters here to San Francisco <DIV></DIV>> >> for last-ditch meetings tonight and on Wednesday with <DIV></DIV>> >> workers at the airline's largest maintenance center - and <DIV></DIV>> >> the one with the most militant machinists. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> An agreement by the mechanics to take the concessions would <DIV></DIV>> >> give United, the nation's second-largest airline and a unit <DIV></DIV>> >> of the UAL Corporation, the final piece of a business plan <DIV></DIV>> >> it has presented to the federal government in an effort get <DIV></DIV>> >> $1.8 billion in federal loan guarantees. Rejection of the <DIV></DIV>> >> concessions would scuttle that plan and almost certainly <DIV></DIV>> >> any hope of getting the loan guarantees, possibly forcing <DIV></DIV>> >> United to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Last Wednesday, more than half of the airline's 13,000 <DIV></DIV>> >> mechanics turned out for a vote in which 57 percent <DIV></DIV>> >> rejected the wage and benefit concessions. After making <DIV></DIV>> >> some revisions on Sunday night to the concession package, <DIV></DIV>> >> the airline and union officials organized another vote for <DIV></DIV>> >> Thursday. There is now immense pressure for the mechanics - <DIV></DIV>> >> from executives, from the union leaders, from pilots and <DIV></DIV>> >> flight attendants - to reverse their earlier decision. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Many mechanics are wary. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> "I've got the fear in me that <DIV></DIV>> >> they'll file for Chapter 11 no matter what we do," said Joe <DIV></DIV>> >> Schwirian, a mechanic for 17 years in San Francisco who <DIV></DIV>> >> voted against the concessions the first time. "I think it's <DIV></DIV>> >> in their game plan to do that. They gain too much from <DIV></DIV>> >> filing for Chapter 11 - they can close bases or do other <DIV></DIV>> >> things to skirt the contract." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> But Mr. Schwirian's car-pool colleague, Charlie Lincoln, a <DIV></DIV>> >> lead mechanic and shop steward, had a different take on the <DIV></DIV>> >> situation. "My vote was a `yes' originally," he said, <DIV></DIV>> >> "because what bankruptcy means to us contractually is not a <DIV></DIV>> >> good thing. The membership who voted `no' is just angry at <DIV></DIV>> >> the company. They're voting out of anger and not knowing <DIV></DIV>> >> the facts." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> That anger - present even among many mechanics who voted <DIV></DIV>> >> for the concessions - burns as hot as the engines that <DIV></DIV>> >> these workers maintain. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> It is anger at the fact that they agreed in 1994 to a deep <DIV></DIV>> >> wage cut with no raises for six years, in exchange for <DIV></DIV>> >> stock options that are relatively worthless today. It is <DIV></DIV>> >> anger arising from what they call wasteful management <DIV></DIV>> >> decisions, like United's recently aborted buyout of US <DIV></DIV>> >> Airways, and generous executive compensation, like the $3 <DIV></DIV>> >> million signing bonus Mr. Tilton received in September. And <DIV></DIV>> >> it is anger raised by the steady prodding of a rival union <DIV></DIV>> >> - the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association - that has <DIV></DIV>> >> repeatedly tried to take over representation of the <DIV></DIV>> >> workers. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> In fact, many mechanics say the vote last Wednesday was as <DIV></DIV>> >> much an expression of dissatisfaction toward their current <DIV></DIV>> >> union - the International Association of Machinists - as it <DIV></DIV>> >> was a slap against United's management. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> "I am not a union hater but they give us no information," <DIV></DIV>> >> said Kenneth Epps, a 43-year-old turbine mechanic in San <DIV></DIV>> >> Francisco who said he planned to vote against concessions <DIV></DIV>> >> on Thursday. "A lot of mechanics don't trust our employer <DIV></DIV>> >> and a lot of folks don't trust the union. Voting no is a no <DIV></DIV>> >> vote to the union and a no vote to the company." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> United executives tried to sweeten the concession package <DIV></DIV>> >> by agreeing on Sunday to slightly alter a measure on unpaid <DIV></DIV>> >> vacation days, as well as promising to try to resolve <DIV></DIV>> >> workplace issues. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Conditions that have made mechanics irate include the <DIV></DIV>> >> starting times of swing shifts, the outsourcing of work to <DIV></DIV>> >> other companies and what the disgruntled call the <DIV></DIV>> >> ineptitude of floor supervisors and middle management. Many <DIV></DIV>> >> mechanics have long demanded that a system be put in place <DIV></DIV>> >> where they can voice their complaints. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> "Part of it is the machinists tend to have more of a <DIV></DIV>> >> conflict with management than the other unions," said John <DIV></DIV>> >> W. Budd, a professor of industrial relations at the <DIV></DIV>> >> University of Minnesota. "The pilots are up in the air, the <DIV></DIV>> >> flight attendants are up in the air. They can do what needs <DIV></DIV>> >> to be done. But the machinists are on the ground. There's a <DIV></DIV>> >> huge potential for management to be looking over their <DIV></DIV>> >> shoulder." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> The relationship that the mechanics have with their <DIV></DIV>> >> supervisors varies widely by workplace. This was indicated <DIV></DIV>> >> by the radically different ways that votes turned out last <DIV></DIV>> >> week at some of the largest bases. In San Francisco and in <DIV></DIV>> >> Indianapolis, the second-largest site in number of <DIV></DIV>> >> mechanics, workers voted by almost 2-to-1 to reject the <DIV></DIV>> >> concessions. At Denver, workers voted by 57 percent in <DIV></DIV>> >> favor of the concessions. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> "I'm cautiously optimistic that this will pass," said Steve <DIV></DIV>> >> Adams, secretary-treasurer of the Denver local, which has <DIV></DIV>> >> about 1,000 members eligible to vote. "But they are going <DIV></DIV>> >> to bellyache all the way to the ballot box." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Some mechanics and union officials who support the <DIV></DIV>> >> concessions say the outcome on Thursday could mirror what <DIV></DIV>> >> took place at US Airways this fall. That airline, which <DIV></DIV>> >> filed for bankruptcy in August, had asked the machinists <DIV></DIV>> >> for further concessions, which the leaders agreed to but <DIV></DIV>> >> the membership rejected by 57 percent in a vote on Aug. 28. <DIV></DIV>> >> Three weeks later, the union held a second vote after David <DIV></DIV>> >> N. Siegel, the chief executive of US Airways, said that the <DIV></DIV>> >> airline was in worse shape than he had previously <DIV></DIV>> >> indicated, and the concessions were passed. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> But what is now happening at US Airways could also <DIV></DIV>> >> encourage the United mechanics to take a firm stand against <DIV></DIV>> >> concessions. Just three days before the first vote at <DIV></DIV>> >> United, US Airways announced further layoffs of 2,500 <DIV></DIV>> >> workers, with 450 of those coming from the ranks of the <DIV></DIV>> >> mechanics. That raised the ire of mechanics at United, <DIV></DIV>> >> several of them said. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> The United mechanics also still talk about the disastrous <DIV></DIV>> >> business decisions that management made that led to the <DIV></DIV>> >> company's bleeding cash: the attempted buyout of US Airways <DIV></DIV>> >> that was blocked in July 2001 by the Justice Department; <DIV></DIV>> >> the failed attempt to create a business jet division called <DIV></DIV>> >> Avolar, and the seeming lack of a coherent business plan <DIV></DIV>> >> for coping with the economic downturn of the last couple <DIV></DIV>> >> years. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> What is more, the labor groups were promised by Gerald M. <DIV></DIV>> >> Greenwald, the UAL chief executive who oversaw the employee <DIV></DIV>> >> stock option plan from 1995 to 1999, that they would never <DIV></DIV>> >> work without a contract again. That promise turned out to <DIV></DIV>> >> be hollow, and the mechanics watched in frustration as <DIV></DIV>> >> their contract expired in July 2000 without a deal. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> "They feel that since July of 2000, they have been <DIV></DIV>> >> disrespected and abused," said Scotty Ford, president of <DIV></DIV>> >> the union local that represents United mechanics. "I have <DIV></DIV>> >> got all the people who work for me working the properties, <DIV></DIV>> >> trying to impress on them the seriousness of the situation, <DIV></DIV>> >> trying to convince them that the need is real." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> It was not until March 2002 that the mechanics got a <DIV></DIV>> >> contract granting them their first raise since 1994. <DIV></DIV>> >> Mechanics also have other bitter memories from the autumn <DIV></DIV>> >> of 2000, when United accused the machinists of staging a <DIV></DIV>> >> work slowdown and got a court injunction against them. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> And in the middle of negotiations for that contract, the <DIV></DIV>> >> Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association tried to take over <DIV></DIV>> >> representation of the mechanics. Many United mechanics are <DIV></DIV>> >> now lobbying in favor of that union, which argues that it <DIV></DIV>> >> more ably represents mechanics because it does not have <DIV></DIV>> >> other labor groups as members. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> The Aircraft Mechanics have set up a phone message hotline <DIV></DIV>> >> to United workers saying: "It is not our labor costs behind <DIV></DIV>> >> the crisis at United or the airlines. It is greed and <DIV></DIV>> >> arrogant management. If we give concessions today, they <DIV></DIV>> >> will demand more blood tomorrow." <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/business/ <DIV></DIV>> > 04LABO.html?ex=1040012599&ei=1&en <DIV></DIV>> > =936d0a85eab3cbee <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> HOW TO ADVERTISE <DIV></DIV>> >> --------------------------------- <DIV></DIV>> >> For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters <DIV></DIV>> >> or other creative advertising opportunities with The <DIV></DIV>> >> New York Times on the Web, please contact <DIV></DIV>> >> onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media <DIV></DIV>> >> kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> For general information about NYTimes.com, write to <DIV></DIV>> >> help@nytimes.com. <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV>> >> Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company <DIV></DIV>> >> <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Help STOP SPAM with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMHEN/2016";>the new MSN 8 </a> and get 2 months FREE*</html>