Both "sides" have made interesting arguments. One thing to realize is that the fares of the "paying" first class passengers are often paid for by their company; the pax don't pay themselves. So what is the difference between some person upgrading to first (and to a seat that would have been vacant anyway) and another person having the company pay the bill? Yes the airline gets more money from the "paid" first class passenger, but the passengers are the same. There are loutish first class passengers just as there are loutish coach pssengers -- having more money or more perks does not make a person better -- it it did, we would have an answer to our prison & crime problems. As for the way people used to dress in first classs, that applied to the whole plane. I remember coming out to Portland 17 years ago to take my present job. I flew from Chicago (ORD) to PDX with a change at Denver (This was Continental). On the plane from ORD to DEN, almost everyone was dressed in what you might call "business attire"; on the plane from Denver to Portland, it was somewhat different -- I was the only one not dressed in "west coast casual." Now lots of people, even on the East Coast, dress "casually" on airplanes, even in first class (Miss Manners has just fainted.) Why? some cite the "democratization" of air travel that lower fares has accomplished. Personally, if I'm going to be spending most of the day in uncomfortable planes & walking a long way in the terminals, I'd rather wear comfortable clothes & shoes. (My sneakers won't set off the alarm at security, but my dressy Rockports will.) As for a solution, raise coach fares, lower first class fares so that they are only 20 - 25% more than coach. It would be curious to see what would happen. Or for a really off the wall suggestion -- charge everyone the same, and let the best-dressed sit in first class (as judged by the flight attendants.) john -- John F. Kurtzke, C.S.C. Department of Mathematics 278 Buckley Center University of Portland Portland, OR 97203 503-943-7377 kurtzke@up.edu