On 03/31/2016 12:49 PM, Ruben Safir wrote: > On 03/31/2016 12:31 PM, Jeffrey Walton wrote: >>>> That is not a bug, it was a desired feature... >>> >>> Huh. How is not finding a viable compiler when one is present a desired feature? >> >> +1. I kinda laughed when I read that, too. >> >> Apparently the project has a set of goals, and breaking the >> configuration and compile in some instances meets the goals. Hence the >> reason I laughed. >> >> Jeff >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Autoconf mailing list >> Autoconf@xxxxxxx >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf >> > http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html > > > Re: clang vs free software > > From: Richard Stallman <rms at gnu dot org> > To: gcc at gcc dot gnu dot org > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 09:54:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: clang vs free software > Authentication-results: sourceware.org; auth=none > References: <CAJnXXoi2MLpZWxOxknR=mNR91JdZcHrKRsqYZSWY373fvwxObg at > mail dot gmail dot com> <87eh439w1n dot fsf at uwakimon dot sk dot > tsukuba dot ac dot jp> > <CAJnXXojjSAWL8cqZp0X16xa81R73huywtTS90p6O3CpRaPOiDQ at mail dot gmail > dot com> <jwvwqhu8zcg dot fsf-monnier+emacs at gnu dot org> <87ha8yqvup > dot fsf at engster dot org> <E1W5cXI-0000j4-8x at fencepost dot gnu dot > org> <CAJnXXoiuzZhjDGpvXY7psee=+bXn1rB+GdELYP0FS0CuWPqYeQ at mail dot > gmail dot com> <E1W6HwP-0001WU-Tg at fencepost dot gnu dot org> > <87r47zezcc dot fsf at fencepost dot gnu dot org> <m2eh3ykc3y dot fsf at > gmail dot com> <20140123174934 dot GA10933 at thyrsus dot com> > Reply-to: rms at gnu dot org > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > In the free software movement, we campaign for the freedom of the > users of computing. The values of free software are fundamentally > different from the values of open source, which make "better code" the > ultimate goal. If GCC were to change from a free compiler into a > platform for nonfree compilers, it would no longer serve the goal of > freedom very well. Therefore, we had to take care to prevent that. > > (See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html > for more explanation of the difference between free software and open > source. See also http://thebaffler.com/past/the_meme_hustler for > Evgeny Morozov's article on the same point.) > > The Clang and LLVM developers reach different conclusions from ours > because they do not share our values and goals. They object to the > measures we have taken to defend freedom because they see the > inconvenience of them and do not recognize (or don't care about) the > need for them. I would guess they describe their work as "open > source" and do not talk about freedom. They have been supported by > Apple, the company which hates our freedom so much that its app store > for the ithings _requires_ all apps to be nonfree. (*) > > The nonfree compilers that are now based on LLVM prove that I was > right -- that the danger was real. If I had "opened" up GCC code for > use in nonfree combinations, that would not have prevented a defeat; > rather, it would have caused that defeat to occur very soon. > > For GCC to be replaced by another technically superior compiler that > defended freedom equally well would cause me some personal regret, but > I would rejoice for the community's advance. The existence of LLVM is > a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not > copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers -- so > that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as > much as it helps us. > > The cause of the setback is the existence of a non-copylefted compiler > that therefore becomes the base for nonfree compilers. The identity > of that compiler -- whether it be LLVM, GCC, or something else -- is a > secondary detail. To make GCC available for such use would be > throwing in the towel. If that enables GCC to "win", the victory > would be hollow, because it would not be a victory for what really > matters: users' freedom. > > If you think we ought to "compromise" on this point, please see > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html. > > The only code that helps us and not our adversaries is copylefted > code. Free software released under a pushover license is available > for us to use, but available to our adversaries just as well. If you > want your work to give freedom an advantage, use the leverage > available to you -- copyleft your code. I invite those working on > major add-ons to LLVM to release them under GNU GPL > version-3-or-later. > > > If you want to argue for changing the goals of the GNU Project, the > proper place to do this is gnu-misc-discuss@xxxxxxx. Please move this > discussion there. > > > * If a binary is made from published source code, but you can't > install your binary of a modified version of that source code, the > binary is proprietary even if the source code is free. (See > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html.) A binary in Apple's > app store may be made from published free source code, but under > Apple's rules and Apple's DRM, the binary can't be free. > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] In the free software movement, we campaign for the freedom of the users of computing. The values of free software are fundamentally different from the values of open source, which make "better code" the ultimate goal. If GCC were to change from a free compiler into a platform for nonfree compilers, it would no longer serve the goal of freedom very well. Therefore, we had to take care to prevent that. (See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html for more explanation of the difference between free software and open source. See also http://thebaffler.com/past/the_meme_hustler for Evgeny Morozov's article on the same point.) The Clang and LLVM developers reach different conclusions from ours because they do not share our values and goals. They object to the measures we have taken to defend freedom because they see the inconvenience of them and do not recognize (or don't care about) the need for them. I would guess they describe their work as "open source" and do not talk about freedom. They have been supported by Apple, the company which hates our freedom so much that its app store for the ithings _requires_ all apps to be nonfree. (*) The nonfree compilers that are now based on LLVM prove that I was right -- that the danger was real. If I had "opened" up GCC code for use in nonfree combinations, that would not have prevented a defeat; rather, it would have caused that defeat to occur very soon. For GCC to be replaced by another technically superior compiler that defended freedom equally well would cause me some personal regret, but I would rejoice for the community's advance. The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers -- so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us. The cause of the setback is the existence of a non-copylefted compiler that therefore becomes the base for nonfree compilers. The identity of that compiler -- whether it be LLVM, GCC, or something else -- is a secondary detail. To make GCC available for such use would be throwing in the towel. If that enables GCC to "win", the victory would be hollow, because it would not be a victory for what really matters: users' freedom. If you think we ought to "compromise" on this point, please see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html. The only code that helps us and not our adversaries is copylefted code. Free software released under a pushover license is available for us to use, but available to our adversaries just as well. If you want your work to give freedom an advantage, use the leverage available to you -- copyleft your code. I invite those working on major add-ons to LLVM to release them under GNU GPL version-3-or-later. If you want to argue for changing the goals of the GNU Project, the proper place to do this is gnu-misc-discuss@xxxxxxx. Please move this discussion there. * If a binary is made from published source code, but you can't install your binary of a modified version of that source code, the binary is proprietary even if the source code is free. (See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html.) A binary in Apple's app store may be made from published free source code, but under Apple's rules and Apple's DRM, the binary can't be free. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 _______________________________________________ Autoconf mailing list Autoconf@xxxxxxx https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf
