On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Will Yonker <aragonx@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Are you one of the > developers that made this change? Did you take into account all the history > we have had with that file? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog Fedora is a community project. The people who decide are necessarily the developers of the change itself. There's a change process through FESCo, just like this one. With Fedora 21, productization resulted in just the server product reverting to including and enabling rsyslog by default. > My hope is to catch the eye of the decision makers and > give them a point of view that perhaps they didn’t have when making this > decision. Or is this the wrong place for such a hope? Those discussions happen on devel@ and I'd also say it's about timing. These rsyslog and systemd-journald discussions go back to late 2012. > Why does this matter on Fedora? Well, isn't Fedora the building blocks for > Redhat Enterprise Linux? If we change it here, won't it eventually make it > there? The change is already in RHEL/CentOS 7. The journal is the primary logging tool, however rsyslog is installed and runs by default as well. > Anyway, sorry for my reaction there but I think open discussions as to the > reasons for the changes are good and necessary. It could even be that we > find out a change will cause too much disruption from an open discussion > just like this one. ^.^ That's completely appropriate, but when people start complaining about a change that happened quite a while ago, at a time when all the angles were exposed and argued multiple times, it just seems like a case of "oh boy, here we go again" rather than something new. > Consensus on the user support mailing list may not be a prerequisite for > change but it should have a strong bearing on said change. That's a difficult approach. For one it produces a lot of noisy data (statistically and figuratively), but it's also going to be subject to a lot of confirmation bias by users who just don't have any common frame of reference yet for the proposed change. So they can only imagine problems, rather than benefits. That leads to an inherent resistance to new things. Fedora decision makers are users, so they're subject to their own changes. I wouldn't consider these decisions being done in isolation. What does /var/log/README say about this? I haven't read it in forever but there is a README there that explains these changes. I wonder if it does, or should if it doesn't, describe how to revert back to the old behavior by installing rsyslog? -- Chris Murphy -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
