On Wed, 4 Mar 2015, Pete Travis wrote:
<snip> If my tone at the beginning suggested otherwise, it was because I've seen threads like this turn into "I like the old thing fine so Fedora should not use the new thing" many, many times. The discussion is never productive and rarely based on any technical technical argument . As to your question, there are probably answers in various mailing list archives. Fedora editions that wanted to have rsyslog do, others do not. Consensus on the user support mailing list is not a prerequisite for change. If you want to participate in an effective and useful way, I'm happy to help you find that path, but please don't lessen the value of this list with opinion rants and overtly negative attitudes. --Pete
Well, you see, this is a fedora *user's* group, not a fedora *developer's* group. What constitutes "overtly negative attitudes" depends on this difference. Here's the thing. I don't give a rat's ass about what is technically prettier. I don't care about fine points of administrative style. What I care about as a *user* is turning on my computer and being able to get my work done without making futzing with the box my primary focus. I want my *work* to be my primary focus. I prefer to admin my own machines for a number of reasons, but wanting to be an administrator first and a scientist second isn't it. So... the statement "Hey, this fedora-as-a-developer's-playground stuff is getting in the way of me doing my thing" is not "overtly negative" and it's not just an "opinion rant." It's a *user* talking about *user* issues. And the response of "well, if you don't like it, become a developer" isn't really a viable answer. That doesn't mean that changing things in order to make things "better" is bad. It's great. But it means that it needs to be done in a way that doesn't hold *users* and their needs in contempt. What percent of the market does fedora have? I know surveys are generally bad, and servers are not indicative of all users, but at least from the w3techs.com survey fedora has moved from 2% of the market to 1.5% of the market in the past year. I switch back between Mint and Fedora on a regular basis for my personal machines, and use CentOS for my servers. CentOS is holding its own, but that's at least in part to the fact that it's stable. And stability isn't such a bad thing for *users.* What's fedora's goal? To emulate Mandriva and shoot for that 0.1% market share position? Metal car keys have been obsolete for a decade. But there's a reason we still use them. billo
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