Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: > 2013/11/17 Frantisek Hanzlik <franta@xxxxxxxxxxx>: >> Steven Stern wrote: >>> On 11/15/2013 04:46 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote: >>>> For one thing I'm in the conviction that binary logs are hazardous >>>> bullshit, >>> >>> In what way might the logs be hazardous? >> >> It was mean mainly from administrator view. When things go bad, >> machine HW/SW fail or any other disasters occurs, logs are very >> valuable. And I'm confident that binary logs are too weak in this >> situation. Text logs are useful even if log file is damaged or ends >> with fragments and can be easy readable with lot of tools. Binary >> logs, by contrast, may be useless when log file is damaged or I >> haven't this one unique utility for reading them. And my experiences >> with systems where binary logs are implemented says clearly that >> binary logs is bad idea. >> Second, it is question when tight integration of systemd and logging >> services has any benefits - there is number of situation (logging >> over network, for example) which speaks for separate logging service. > > The journald log format is documented at least to some extent [1], and > there exists free software for reading the log. To me, it sounds like > way more accessible than if it was a binary data format of a typical > proprietary tool. For example, booting any Fedora live image should > suffice if you need to read the journal of a system that uses journald > and happens to become unbootable. > > Typically journalctl will generate you a representation of the data in > syslog log file format. This loses some infromation that the journal > stores, because there is no way to represent it all while keeping the > output syslog-like and easily human-readable. This output can be > easily fed to traditional unix tools like grep, if that is your > preferred way of extracting information from logs. > > Finally, since you can also run a normal syslog daemon which maintains > a text-format logs for you, I do not really see why having some log > data in journald format under /run/log/journal/ should be considered > hazardous. You can pretty much just ignore it if you feel like using > other kinds of tools for storing and managing logs. > >> And possibilities with e.g. rsyslogd are better than with journald >> - why Fedora must again replace verified, reliable, Unix standard >> things with some crappy solutions? For nightmares of its users? > At least for my needs, the journal has been way more convenient to use > than rsyslog. It is much nicer to read logs when journalctl e.g. > combines the older rotated logs with the latest ones. Also, it easily > allows me to easily specify that I want just the logs of this month or > of just this one boot, or of just some specific service. > > If I was writing tools that'd automatically handle the logs, I think I > would also benefit from the additional data that journal stores that > is usually not available in a syslog formatted log. Having to use e.g. > the journal API would of course be some burden, but I can imagine it > being nicer than having to e.g. parse all the different date formats > that a text-formatted log could have. Or having to handle all of the > other things that may or may not be in the syslog lines, in various > formats. > > Of course there are still bugs and the other issues in the new tools, > but they certainly aren't there in order to cause nightmares. I am > hopeful that the issues can be and are fixed. For my (relatively > simple) setups, there aren't any major showshoppers, though. > > [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/journal-files/ > > -Joonas I'm convinced it is as similar things on eg. ms windows (binary logs, registry,...) - when is all working fine, then it look fine too. But when machine somehow fail, then this binary mud is serious problem. And I do not want to wait to time, when for some similar failed crap I have to reinstall Linux box. Until now I never needed it, no matter how significant Linux box crashes were... Franta Hanzlik -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
