Allegedly, on or about 07 November 2013, Robert Holtzman sent: > To you it's rude, to me blunt. This will never be resolved as it's a > matter of individual taste, enviroment, upbringing, etc. You seem to > have a thinner skin than I do. In general, what we saw was his bluntness. And I can be quite blunt, too. When the situation warrants it. Besides, I run a business, and being direct is often the best way to make sure things are done right, but that's an entirely different thing than being an asshole to people. But much more often than was tolerable, he went well beyond bluntness, and was outrightly rude and well on the attack. That's what got him where he was (the attacking, more than the rudeness). There is one hell of a difference between saying to someone, don't chmod /var/www/html to rwxrwxrwx because it's a dumb thing to do (bluntness), or to RTFM, than to start hurling insults around and attacking people. I dare say that his rudeness goes beyond the usual handbags at ten paces we may see, such as when it comes to what some people say about lovers of KDE or Gnome. Otherwise there'd be a lot more moderated people on here. But there aren't, so it goes to show the level that he went to, to trigger it. I am an Australian, being thin skinned is not a national characteristic. We are the kind of country where a person can call the leader of the country a dickhead directly to their face, get caught doing it on national television, and nobody even raises an eyebrow (perhaps they'll raise a glass, but that's about all). Conversely, start a conversation that's essentially picking a fight, and you get one rather quickly. In general, people get what they deserve, is the sentiment. He was given the choice to play ball, but didn't. He would rather leave, and continuing being what he is, rather than join the spirit of the community. It was always his choice. I used to work with people with behavioural problems. If they didn't curb their own behaviour, someone else would do it for them. Complete strangers would be likely to give them a (deserved) hiding, the system takes more confronting steps (e.g. jail), so they do *need* to control themselves to be a part of society. Hopefully, people learn it at a young age, and they generally learn it by being corrected, not just getting it right by themselves. That's what we did, we didn't put up with crap, we stopped it and educated them about what they ought to be doing. Some hopeless people in the same place would just stand back and let them hang themselves, metaphorically, even make endless excuses for them. With the results that the miscreant carries on behaving badly, almost forever more, and a horde of victims pile up as collateral damage. *That* is an intolerable situation, but one that we can completely control (stopping other people being on the receiving end). I see very little difference between that environment and this situation. Being "blunt," a person was being a jerk, causes lots of grief for lots of people, gets a certain level of restraint put on them, still carries on like a jerk, and a few enablers make excuses and try to undo any attempt to restrain the offending behaviour. And that doesn't help anybody. He was not the messiah, and he didn't deserve royal treatment. The fact that he could help, sometimes, and did know things, doesn't make it all right to be a jerk. He can learn to control himself, come back, and not get moderated. He's even been told that, more than once, just in case the idea doesn't occur to him by itself. But I think we all know that he just isn't going to do that. It ain't our fault he got in trouble, it ain't our fault he left, it's *all* his. Recognise that. Apportion the blame where it truly lays. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
