Apparently it is for most SSDs, except for the Samsung 840 Pro, which apparently uses a new technology that conflicts with "discard"
In the event that you are using it, discard it as a test ;-)
Cheers,
Noah
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:55 PM, <users-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (jonc)
2. Re: fedup ?? (Jim)
3. Re: fedup ?? (Max Pyziur)
4. Re: fedup ?? (Itamar Reis Peixoto)
5. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (Rick Stevens)
6. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (David)
7. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (Joe Zeff)
8. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (David)
9. Re: Frequent Gnome lock-ups since fresh F18 install - It's
the Samsung 840 Pro SSD, don't know why (Digimer)
10. Re: FedUp experiences; moving to an F18 life. (Garry T. Williams)
11. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (jonc)
12. Re: Removing nVidia (Joe Zeff)
13. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (jonc)
14. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (Joe Zeff)
15. Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18 (Kevin Fenzi)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jonc <jonc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:36:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 07:19 PM, Tom Horsley wrote
But if you read some of the articles where the justifications for
things like Gnome 3 have been presented, the developers are constantly
talking about how they are doing it all for "typical users". The problem
is that these typical users are all totally imaginary and exist inside
the designer's heads.
If they developed stuff they actually wanted to use themselves, there
would at least be a few real users instead of a crowd of imaginary
typical users.
I just dismiss that "typical user" stuff as PR fluff. What they going to say? We develop it for atypical users?
I think developers, not just FOSS developers, usually make an effort to create software users will like. I just think FOSS developers are poorly positioned to find out what users need. (Indy OS X developers are in a similar position. They are often single developers trying to make money selling at Apple's App Store. Many don't have resources to support real user testing, either. So, they play it by ear, like FOSS. Except they know down to the dollar how popular their products are.)
I also think it's almost impossible for an experienced developer to intuit what users expect from software.
The thing about designing software is that you just can't ask users what they want, or what they like. They often say crazy things. You need to spend time with users observing, and asking questions about, the activities your software is supposed to support. It's the difference between this: Ask a desert villager carrying a bucket of water back home what he'd like. He's probably going to say, Make me a lighter bucket. And this: I see you need to walk two miles to find water. Did you know we can run a pipe out there?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim <binarynut@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:37:17 -0500
Subject: Re: fedup ??
On 02/18/2013 07:31 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Jim <binarynut@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I'll give it a try, Thanks for your help.
But can I get a KDE desktop out of that image.yes, should work
------------
Itamar Reis Peixoto
http://www.quebarato.com.br/perfil/itamarjp
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Max Pyziur <pyz@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:39:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: fedup ??
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Jim <binarynut@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Running fedup from F17 to upgrade to F18, Is this the correct procedure ?
And I get the below Error message.
# fedup-cli --iso /home/jim/Downloads/Fedora-18-i686-Live-KDE.iso
--debuglog=fedupdebug.log
setting up repos...
Error: can't get boot images.
try using dvd images.
So while we have you on the line, any idea when the next upgrade of fedup will be released. It hoses on my desktop system; checking koji, it seems the upgrade has gotten positive ratings; what's holding things up?
Max Pyziur
pyz@xxxxxxxxx
------------
Itamar Reis Peixoto
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Itamar Reis Peixoto <itamar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:43:46 -0300
Subject: Re: fedup ??
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Jim <binarynut@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'll give it a try, Thanks for your help.
if you have a fast connection
fedup --network 18
------------
Itamar Reis Peixoto
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rick Stevens <ricks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:48:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 04:12 PM, jonc issued this missive:
On 02/18/2013 07:06 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
I don't think you can take comments on lists or forums to represent the
opinions and experience of average users.
I rather think you can, since that is where the average user is going
to go for help. If there is an avalanche of negative comments about the
way something has been implemented, or changed, or perceived as broken,
then there's obviously something real going on. Many, MANY bugfixes
have come about because of comments in user fora--not necessarily from bugzillas.
If developers want to join in and say who they are, I think that's
great. If they are *afraid* to tell users they are developers, that says
something ugly about those users.
Or about the developers and their inability to take criticism (sometimes
very, VERY justified criticism).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at -
- from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David <dgboles@xxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 2/18/2013 7:48 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
> On 02/18/2013 04:12 PM, jonc issued this missive:
>> On 02/18/2013 07:06 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
>
>> I don't think you can take comments on lists or forums to represent the
>> opinions and experience of average users.
>
> I rather think you can, since that is where the average user is going
> to go for help. If there is an avalanche of negative comments about the
> way something has been implemented, or changed, or perceived as broken,
> then there's obviously something real going on. Many, MANY bugfixes
> have come about because of comments in user fora--not necessarily from
> bugzillas.
>
>> If developers want to join in and say who they are, I think that's
>> great. If they are *afraid* to tell users they are developers, that says
>> something ugly about those users.
>
> Or about the developers and their inability to take criticism (sometimes
> very, VERY justified criticism).
And, after all of the negative, nasty, comments in places like here/
They switched to some flavor of Ubuntu.
--
David
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joe Zeff <joe@xxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:55:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 05:48 PM, David wrote:
And, after all of the negative, nasty, comments in places like here/
They switched to some flavor of Ubuntu.
Or, for that matter, they've kept the same distro but switched to a different DE.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David <dgboles@xxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:17:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 2/18/2013 8:55 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 02/18/2013 05:48 PM, David wrote:
>> And, after all of the negative, nasty, comments in places like
>> here/ They switched to some flavor of Ubuntu.
>
> Or, for that matter, they've kept the same distro but switched to a
> different DE.
Some stayed here. With Fedora. I did, Some changed changed their DE.
However? I see many old friends on many different distro lists that
switched distros *and* DE.
This is Linux after all. Pick and chose what you like.
As I said, and maybe did not make clear, is that I have a problem with
those that bitch but do not help.
Me? As hild of the 1960's and the 1970's. "If you are not part of the
solution then you're part of the problem."
--
David
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Digimer <lists@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:22:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Frequent Gnome lock-ups since fresh F18 install - It's the Samsung 840 Pro SSD, don't know why
I wanted to post a follow-up. I've determined that the 2~3x/day crash was caused by my Samsung 840 Pro SSD. I've posted my findings to the fedora-devel mailing list.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-February/178835.html
Maybe this will help save someone the frustrations I've enjoyed this past week. >_>
digimer
On 02/12/2013 09:48 PM, Digimer wrote:
Hi all,
I had F17 and updated it last week to F18. It was perfectly stable
and I had no problems with Gnome.
I did a fresh install of F18 (fresh drive) on Sunday and since then
Gnome 3 has locked up hard on me six times (three times just today).
Each time, I can ctrl+alt+f2 into a terminal and I've tried restarting
various things without successfully recovering.
If I run 'init 3' -> 'init 5', Gnome restarts and the system is
usable again. It seems to happen randomly, though it generally happens
when I am flipping between windows with alt+tab or alt+tilde. That said,
it just crashed on me when I tried to unlock the screen after being gone
for about an hour.
This time, I checked syslog and these were the last messages before
the lock up;
===========
Feb 12 21:38:50 lemass systemd[1]: Starting Getty on tty2...
Feb 12 21:38:50 lemass systemd[1]: Started Getty on tty2.
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: dbus[749]: [system] Activating
service name='net.reactivated.Fprint' (using servicehelper)
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus[749]: [system] Activating service
name='net.reactivated.Fprint' (using servicehelper)
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: dbus[749]: [system]
Successfully activated service 'net.reactivated.Fprint'
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus[749]: [system] Successfully activated
service 'net.reactivated.Fprint'
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: Launching FprintObject
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: ** Message: D-Bus service
launched with name: net.reactivated.Fprint
Feb 12 21:38:51 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: ** Message: entering main loop
Feb 12 21:39:12 lemass systemd-logind[743]: New session 5 of user root.
Feb 12 21:39:22 lemass dbus-daemon[749]: ** Message: No devices in use,
exit
===========
This time I tried restarting dbus.service and it closed and,
eventually, restarted Gnome.
This is getting to the point where I can't really be productive with
my laptop. Whenever it hangs, I lose anything not yet saved as gnome
becomes totally unresponsive. I am not sure what I would open a ticket
on even.
Any help would be appreciated.
Digimer
--
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Garry T. Williams" <gtwilliams@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:30:09 -0500
Subject: Re: FedUp experiences; moving to an F18 life.
On 2-18-13 13:05:50 Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
> I am seriously considering waiting for F19
> unless I absolutely need F18.
I did the update from F17 to F18 using yum and had no problems at all.
--
Garry T. Williams
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jonc <jonc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:32:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 07:48 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 02/18/2013 04:12 PM, jonc issued this missive:
On 02/18/2013 07:06 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
I don't think you can take comments on lists or forums to represent the
opinions and experience of average users.
I rather think you can, since that is where the average user is going
to go for help. If there is an avalanche of negative comments about the
way something has been implemented, or changed, or perceived as broken,
then there's obviously something real going on. Many, MANY bugfixes
have come about because of comments in user fora--not necessarily from bugzillas.
If developers want to join in and say who they are, I think that's
great. If they are *afraid* to tell users they are developers, that says
something ugly about those users.
Or about the developers and their inability to take criticism (sometimes
very, VERY justified criticism).
-
I don't think "average users" go to forums and lists with issues. Mostly, I expect they go back to Windows. Experienced and savvy users, perhaps. But, average users? No. They aren't even likely to know those places exist.
Your tone seems to suggest you think developers owe something to users ("very, VERY justified criticism"). I don't think they do, and I don't think developers have any more reason to pay attention to anecdotes from users than users have a reason to pay attention to anecdotes from developers.
Should developers pay attention when someone says,"Hey! This is broken!"? Of course. Should they pay attention when someone says, "This sucks!" Well, that's up to them. They have little to lose or gain either way.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joe Zeff <joe@xxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:44:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Removing nVidia
On 02/04/2013 05:40 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:49:11 -0800
Joe Zeff <joe@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Right now, my desktop computer is getting a brain transplant. Alas,
the nVidia graphics card I've been using won't fit, and the new card
is neither ATI nor nVidia. Now, I know that once it's up and running
I can use either yum or yumex to get rid of all the nVidia cruft, but
that's not what I need to know.
What I want to find out is what, if anything, I'll need to do to get
it booting properly in the first place, as the kernel lines in
/boot/grub2/grub.cfg all refer to kmod-nvidia. (At least, I think
they do, but I can't exactly check right now.) Is there anything
special I'll need to do, either at boot or later to tidy this up?
AFAIK, the kernel will be able to boot anyway, so you shouldn't end up
with a dead system. It will load the nvidia kernel module, which will
probably fail to detect any nVidia cards (since, as you say, none will
be present). This might force X to fail, but not necessarily.
Anyway, in the worst-case scenario, X will fail completely, but you'll
still be able to access a text console. If that happens, login as root,
do a yum remove kmod-nvidia, delete any stale /etc/X11/xorg.conf files
you might have, and reboot. This should be enough to reset the X
configuration to something that looks like a Fedora-default, and from
that point there is a very good chance that X will autoconfigure itself
correctly and successfully, out-of-the-box (after a reboot, of course).
Sorry for so much quoted text, but I needed context. The new mobo is here and will only boot into Maintenance Mode, with no network access. Attempts to move to a full text boot fail. I'll try to remove both kmod-nvidia and akmod-nvidia, but I don't know if yum will do that off-line. If not, what next?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jonc <jonc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:47:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 09:17 PM, David wrote:
Some stayed here. With Fedora. I did, Some changed changed their DE.
I moved to Fedora from several months with CentOS as a desktop. Eventually I wanted to do things its ageing core doesn't want to do. I'd tried every version of Gnome 3 since its release and been seriously annoyed. Not because it wasn't Gnome 2, but just because I don't like needing to throw my mouse all over the screen and I don't agree with their assumptions about keyboard use. F18's Gnome Shell works for me, and rather well, only because a few extensions have matured enough to eliminate most of my annoyances. If I had to use a default Gnome Shell, I would not.
I grew up in Linux with Slackware, for several versions over the years from 3, I think, to 12. Plus Red Hat, Suse, etc. Also played with early and current versions of Ubuntu, plus Mint. Debian is not my style.
Display quality, font rendering, and on-screen responsiveness are more important to me than a DE. Those qualities are more important to me than the DE's design. (After all, they're all more alike than different: Click on icon, stuff happens.)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joe Zeff <joe@xxxxxxx>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:49:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On 02/18/2013 07:32 PM, jonc wrote:
Your tone seems to suggest you think developers owe something to users
("very, VERY justified criticism"). I don't think they do, and I don't
think developers have any more reason to pay attention to anecdotes from
users than users have a reason to pay attention to anecdotes from
developers.
How about when they replace a program that works fine (anaconda) with a new version that doesn't do as much and/or is much harder for most people to use. Do you find that type of criticism justified?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kevin Fenzi <kevin@xxxxxxxxx>
To: users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:55:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Custom Partition Fedora 18
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:49:40 -0800
Joe Zeff <joe@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> How about when they replace a program that works fine (anaconda) with
> a new version that doesn't do as much and/or is much harder for most
> people to use. Do you find that type of criticism justified?
Well, I'd suggest that it might be misinformed. ;)
http://ohjeezlinux.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/anaconda-retrospective/
and
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/NewInstaller
Are good reads. I posit that the old version didn't really "work fine"
but rather people got used to it's problems and didn't realize the
behind the scenes cost of keeping it from falling down.
kevin
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